Robert Armin, Dr Dolittle's creator, Hugh Lofting, was born in England, but moved to the US in 1919 and lived there for the rest of his life. He no doubt picked up a few Americanisms.
We are not so used to hearing Canadianisms but generally assume that Canadians have more expressions in common with us. Whether that is a correct assumption, I don't know. As Gracious Rebel days, from the list on the link we share many in common.
Most of us find it hard to distinguish Canadian accents from US ones - unless it is a particularly distinctive form of US accent such as the Southern US accents or the Bronx, New Jersey etc.
Our default position when hearing a Canadian speak would be to assume they were American, unless they strongly pronounced 'out' as 'oot' in which case that would be the giveaway.
We are not so used to hearing Canadianisms but generally assume that Canadians have more expressions in common with us. Whether that is a correct assumption, I don't know. As Gracious Rebel days, from the list on the link we share many in common.
Most of us find it hard to distinguish Canadian accents from US ones - unless it is a particularly distinctive form of US accent such as the Southern US accents or the Bronx, New Jersey etc.
Our default position when hearing a Canadian speak would be to assume they were American, unless they strongly pronounced 'out' as 'oot' in which case that would be the giveaway.
I've never noticed that alleged Canadianism. Someone did explain once that it's more obvious to many US English speakers because of the way they say "out".
Robert Armin, Dr Dolittle's creator, Hugh Lofting, was born in England, but moved to the US in 1919 and lived there for the rest of his life. He no doubt picked up a few Americanisms.
Appalachia is said to have a language of its own. Take this test to see if you can understand some basic words
Are we sure this isn't one of those quizzes that tells you got 100% regardless of what you answer? Social media is rife with such things, and I'm pretty sure I encountered one on that exact same site.
EDIT: In fact it is one of those quizzes. Change your answers and you still get 100%. I thought Shipmates wouldn't fall for that trick.
Actually... having done a quick search for 'actually's in political speeches, Donimic Raab does get it down to two syllables when speaking very quickly - a kind of 'atch-lee'. But the other two 'actually's in this exchange, which can all be found by doing a search and clicking on the time of the section to go straight to that section of the video, are three syllables. Not an act-yoo-ully to be heard.
Yes, its one of those words that vary a lot according to speed and informality. I think /achlee/ is common. It would be interesting to find an old recording of the queen, as she may have said /ectuli/. I think that has died out. My wife does a hair-raising imitation of her, as she is very posh. She only has to say "phillip" to have me in fits.
I was curious about the Queen too, but I suspect 'actually' is a word the Queen doesn't use. I did a search of transcripts of royal speeches, and the only royals to use 'actually' seem to be Harry and William!
Actually... having done a quick search for 'actually's in political speeches, Donimic Raab does get it down to two syllables when speaking very quickly - a kind of 'atch-lee'. But the other two 'actually's in this exchange, which can all be found by doing a search and clicking on the time of the section to go straight to that section of the video, are three syllables. Not an act-yoo-ully to be heard.
Yes, its one of those words that vary a lot according to speed and informality. I think /achlee/ is common. It would be interesting to find an old recording of the queen, as she may have said /ectuli/. I think that has died out. My wife does a hair-raising imitation of her, as she is very posh. She only has to say "phillip" to have me in fits.
I was curious about the Queen too, but I suspect 'actually' is a word the Queen doesn't use. I did a search of transcripts of royal speeches, and the only royals to use 'actually' seem to be Harry and William!
Yes, it was probably considered vulgar by the old royals, like carrying money. We pay the servants to say actually.
Our default position when hearing a Canadian speak would be to assume they were American, unless they strongly pronounced 'out' as 'oot' in which case that would be the giveaway.
I've never noticed that alleged Canadianism. Someone did explain once that it's more obvious to many US English speakers because of the way they say "out".
I think there is a Canadian way of saying 'out', but to me (native accent quite RP southern English) it doesn't sound at all like 'oot'. You can hear it several times in the first minute or so of this video, and an explanation of it here.
Our default position when hearing a Canadian speak would be to assume they were American, unless they strongly pronounced 'out' as 'oot' in which case that would be the giveaway.
I've never noticed that alleged Canadianism. Someone did explain once that it's more obvious to many US English speakers because of the way they say "out".
I think there is a Canadian way of saying 'out', but to me (native accent quite RP southern English) it doesn't sound at all like 'oot'. You can hear it several times in the first minute or so of this video, and an explanation of it here.
And you can hear a similar pronunciation of “out” and “about” from some Virginians and North Carolinians.
I once read a phonology article about the Canadian accent - wish I still had it and could quote from it, but from what I remember, the way 'out' is pronounced is part of a wider phenomenon in Canadian accents, where diphthongs followed by voiceless consonants are pronounced in more of a 'close' way - the tongue higher in the mouth. So the same applies to the word 'night,' for instance - which was something I noticed when I was in Canada. It sounds more like neet/nate, because the tongue is higher up, making more of a close sound. There are of course also some US accents that do it, but it is a specific feature of Canadian accents.
The 'ow' sound (how now brown cow) is an interesting one in general - in the UK too, it varies a lot and can be very revealing of where someone comes from. When I moved from near London to the West Country, and I was working in a care home, I remember a little group of elderly residents commenting in loud whispers to each other on my accent when I guided one resident to 'sit down' in her wheelchair: ''Ark at 'er!' they were saying. 'She says "dah-oon," not "deh-oon."'
(Clumsy transcription of mine - I could do it in IPA, but thought it would be more accessible this way. It's one syllable, but it's the first part of the diphthong that accounts for variations of pronunciation. Though Eliza Doolittle omits the final part of the diphthong, so it's a monophthong, and would say 'dahn'.)
Many of those were not specifically Appalachian. Some were generally Southern, and others were pretty true across the United States.
Yes, and I was surprised to see that the announcement that I scored 100% was accompanied by a picture of Olivia de Haviland as Melanie Wilkes, neither of whom were from Appalachia.
Speaking of which, that’s another regional marker in the US—whether one says Appa-LAY-sha/Appa-LAY-shun (or cha/chun for the final syllable) or Appa-LATCH-a/Appa-LATCH-an.
It’s the latter here (North Carolina).
Yes, I was surprised to see Miss Melanie, too. I'm from West Virginia, which is in the Appa-LAY-shuns* and I never considered myself a southerner. We fought with the North during the Civil War!
*I think Nick's pronunciation is become the universal standard though. I hear it his way in all the Ken Burns documentaries.
I'm from West Virginia, which is in the Appa-LAY-shuns* and I never considered myself a southerner. We fought with the North during the Civil War!
*I think Nick's pronunciation is become the universal standard though. I hear it his way in all the Ken Burns documentaries.
I’m not sure it’s the universal standard. I still hear AppaLAYshun a lot from people from “away”—places like West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York or Ohio.
I’m not sure how it’s pronounced in Virginia. Maybe @Moo can say?
Lifebuoy (as it was also spelled in the U.S) was pulled from the American market in 2009, I think. It is still being produced in Cyprus for the EU and UK market.
One I came across today for random reasons is that licorice is also liquorice.
Apparently the first is American and the second is British. But while I as an Australian would tend to lean British in my English, I'm not personally inclined to use a 'q'. A couple of articles I just came across say that Australia and NZ tend to accept either version.
One I came across today for random reasons is that licorice is also liquorice.
Apparently the first is American and the second is British. But while I as an Australian would tend to lean British in my English, I'm not personally inclined to use a 'q'. A couple of articles I just came across say that Australia and NZ tend to accept either version.
Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen liquorice spelt without a 'qu'. I wasn't aware there was an alternative.
Also, apparently Australia is one of the few places where we prefer 'barbeque' to 'barbecue'.
Only ever seen the former in the UK.
We don't tend to use barbie though, unless deliberately appropriating 'Strine terminology. It would then be found near tinny and sanger and a serious risk of Crocodile Dundee quotes.
Heh, as a lover of liquorice, I've long been aware of the alternative American spelling. I guess from talking about it online and sometimes googling it to buy some from specialty liquorice shops online. I've also found that most (possibly all) of my American friends on Facebook think black liquorice is horrible, which astonished me, because I've loved it since I was a kid, and thought everyone loved it!
Here in the UK, the 'correct' spelling (as in what the dictionaries give) is 'barbecue,' but in reality a lot of people spell it barbeque, I guess because the shortened form 'bbq' confuses things - I remember it confusing me one time, and I had to check the dictionary to remind myself of the full spelling.
It seems odd to talk about 'the' Canadian accent. Like any other large country, there are many. The peculiar pronunciation of 'out' seems to me to be an urban Ontario-ism. Not far from here there's a large Mennonite population, many of whom speak with what sounds like a German accent, even if they don't speak German. In other rural areas near here there's a strange accent that I've never heard anywhere else, and I've no idea where it comes from, though many of the people are of Dutch descent. Then there's Newfoundland with its own lovely speech that (to my ear) is closer to the Irish accent than any other. The town nearest us was developed by the Scots, and now has large first generation Portuguese and Dutch populations too - they've all added to the sounds you hear. 'The' Canadian accent is very much a work in progress, so be careful with generalisations!
Also, apparently Australia is one of the few places where we prefer 'barbeque' to 'barbecue'.
It’s spelled “barbecue” here, though on signage it’s sometimes shortened to “BBQ.”
And as I think I’ve mentioned before, here (North Carolina), “barbecue” used on its own never means the apparatus on which food is cooked; it only means a specific style of barbecued pork.
BTW, one of the oldest churches in these parts is Barbecue Presbyterian, so named because of its location near Barbecue Creek, from which the mists rose like smoke from a barbecue pit. The church was founded by Scottish Highlanders in the mid-18th Century; Flora MacDonald had connections to/relatives in the congregation.
It seems odd to talk about 'the' Canadian accent. Like any other large country, there are many. The peculiar pronunciation of 'out' seems to me to be an urban Ontario-ism. Not far from here there's a large Mennonite population, many of whom speak with what sounds like a German accent, even if they don't speak German. In other rural areas near here there's a strange accent that I've never heard anywhere else, and I've no idea where it comes from, though many of the people are of Dutch descent. Then there's Newfoundland with its own lovely speech that (to my ear) is closer to the Irish accent than any other. The town nearest us was developed by the Scots, and now has large first generation Portuguese and Dutch populations too - they've all added to the sounds you hear. 'The' Canadian accent is very much a work in progress, so be careful with generalisations!
Interesting. I was in a largely Mennonite part of Canada, and still heard the close diphthongs I was describing. I knew Newfoundland people too, and they said their accent was different, though it took me a while to hear the difference. To begin with, as a Brit in Canada, the differences between Canadian speech and British speech were the only thing I heard. Then after a while I heard differences within Canadian accents, but they were in addition to the differences between Canadian and British. As an English person, I know there are many English accents, but there are certain things that enable me to identify that an accent is English and not, say, Australian, or American.
It's odd, when I first went to Canada, the accent I heard simply sounded American. Canadians themselves would tell me how their accent differed from American - they were the ones who told me about the 'out and about' thing (these were Mennonites, in Manitoba), and gradually, after living in Canada a while, if I then heard an US accent on TV, I could tell it wasn't Canadian. Now, having been back in the UK for many years, if I hear a Canadian person speak, say, on a youtube video, I can generally tell they are Canadian, and this is regardless of where in Canada they come from. I don't have a detailed phonetic grasp of the differences between Canadian accents, like I do with English accents, but there are certain close diphthongs that enable me to say 'This sounds like a Canadian accent.'
That doesn't mean that everyone in Canada has the same accent - it just means there are certain identifiable things about Canadian accents, which are perhaps noticed more by non-Canadians. People who are part of a group tend to notice all the variety of differences within it, while people outside of the groups notice the broad differences this group has from their group.
I certainly wouldn't want to over-generalise, and my experience of Canada is fairly limited (there's only an indirect connection between my Ship name and the Nova Scotian place name); but I do remember hearing the Canadian 'out' from the mouth of a friend of my family who is originally from Saskatchewan and has lived for many years in a semi-rural area just outside Vancouver.
Heh, as a lover of liquorice, I've long been aware of the alternative American spelling. I guess from talking about it online and sometimes googling it to buy some from specialty liquorice shops online. I've also found that most (possibly all) of my American friends on Facebook think black liquorice is horrible, which astonished me, because I've loved it since I was a kid, and thought everyone loved it!
From the episode of the podcast Gastropod that I listened to yesterday, it's quite possible that your American friends were eating a fairly different thing to what you were eating.
I tried licorice with chilli and cranberry in Denmark. That was a mistake.
AIUI, "rideshare" these days is used in the US for people using their own car as a taxi (Uber, Lyft, etc.). BUT they are not taxis. There's a long-standing legal, cultural, and practical infrastructure and protocol for taxis. The rideshare companies skipped over all that for some time, though there's been work to try to make them play nicely and legally.
Nothing against the rideshare drivers. But the companies have made things hard for the (taxi) cab companies, which have had to follow the existing laws and rules.
I really dislike a word that’s being used a lot at the moment ‘normalcy’ instead of ‘normality’.
It grates and I don’t know why.
Could linguists explain?
'Normalcy' is more commonly used in the US, while 'normality' is more commonly used in the UK. Both started being used in the 1800s, with 'normality' being a slightly earlier usage.
You can look this stuff up in the OED online, by the way, if you have a library card of a library that subscribes. Most UK libraries do - just type in your library card number.
Or did I misunderstand your question, and you were asking why it grates? That would be more a sociolinguistic thing, and I'm not sure the extent to which it's been analysed, but I do observe in general that people easily get irritated by word usages which are different from those they have learnt to use, particularly if those usages are associated with groups of people of which they are not part, and might look down on. Maybe a kind of possessiveness over the English language!
AIUI, "rideshare" these days is used in the US for people using their own car as a taxi (Uber, Lyft, etc.).
When I first heard of uber, it was pitched as exactly a rideshare system (I commute from X to Y at 7:30am. I have 2 spare seats in my car.) but it very swiftly reformed itself into it's current operation as a taxi/minicab service. Don't know if anyone still operates an actual rideshare system.
When I first heard of uber, it was pitched as exactly a rideshare system (I commute from X to Y at 7:30am. I have 2 spare seats in my car.) but it very swiftly reformed itself into it's current operation as a taxi/minicab service. Don't know if anyone still operates an actual rideshare system.
Ah. Now you've described it, that's got a word. It's called a 'carshare' here. It has to be done a bit informally - e.g. with friends or people you work with - otherwise it can invalidate one's insurance.
There are voluntary true rideshare programs, where you sign up and they attempt to match you with someone who has the same commute. I imagine the details of gas money etc. are left to the participants.
Comments
Well I never. Thank you for educating me.
Most of us find it hard to distinguish Canadian accents from US ones - unless it is a particularly distinctive form of US accent such as the Southern US accents or the Bronx, New Jersey etc.
Our default position when hearing a Canadian speak would be to assume they were American, unless they strongly pronounced 'out' as 'oot' in which case that would be the giveaway.
I've never noticed that alleged Canadianism. Someone did explain once that it's more obvious to many US English speakers because of the way they say "out".
Ditto.
Are we sure this isn't one of those quizzes that tells you got 100% regardless of what you answer? Social media is rife with such things, and I'm pretty sure I encountered one on that exact same site.
EDIT: In fact it is one of those quizzes. Change your answers and you still get 100%. I thought Shipmates wouldn't fall for that trick.
MMM
I was curious about the Queen too, but I suspect 'actually' is a word the Queen doesn't use. I did a search of transcripts of royal speeches, and the only royals to use 'actually' seem to be Harry and William!
Yes, it was probably considered vulgar by the old royals, like carrying money. We pay the servants to say actually.
I think there is a Canadian way of saying 'out', but to me (native accent quite RP southern English) it doesn't sound at all like 'oot'. You can hear it several times in the first minute or so of this video, and an explanation of it here.
Do other Americans hear (or stereotype) those people as saying 'oot', as apparently happens to Canadians?
Question: does the brand Lifebuoy not exist in the USA?
"Buoy" is French, isn't it? What's the French pronunciation, anybody?
The 'ow' sound (how now brown cow) is an interesting one in general - in the UK too, it varies a lot and can be very revealing of where someone comes from. When I moved from near London to the West Country, and I was working in a care home, I remember a little group of elderly residents commenting in loud whispers to each other on my accent when I guided one resident to 'sit down' in her wheelchair: ''Ark at 'er!' they were saying. 'She says "dah-oon," not "deh-oon."'
(Clumsy transcription of mine - I could do it in IPA, but thought it would be more accessible this way. It's one syllable, but it's the first part of the diphthong that accounts for variations of pronunciation. Though Eliza Doolittle omits the final part of the diphthong, so it's a monophthong, and would say 'dahn'.)
It's from Spanish. It's pronounced 'boy' in UK English, but not in US English apparently. I didn't know that.
What we should all know, of course, is that a contraction of 'it is' should have an apostrophe.
Yes, I was surprised to see Miss Melanie, too. I'm from West Virginia, which is in the Appa-LAY-shuns* and I never considered myself a southerner. We fought with the North during the Civil War!
*I think Nick's pronunciation is become the universal standard though. I hear it his way in all the Ken Burns documentaries.
I’m not sure how it’s pronounced in Virginia. Maybe @Moo can say?
It used be sold here, or perhaps it was spelt Lifeboy. So long ago, I can't remember.
Apparently the first is American and the second is British. But while I as an Australian would tend to lean British in my English, I'm not personally inclined to use a 'q'. A couple of articles I just came across say that Australia and NZ tend to accept either version.
Only ever seen the former in the UK.
We don't tend to use barbie though, unless deliberately appropriating 'Strine terminology. It would then be found near tinny and sanger and a serious risk of Crocodile Dundee quotes.
Here in the UK, the 'correct' spelling (as in what the dictionaries give) is 'barbecue,' but in reality a lot of people spell it barbeque, I guess because the shortened form 'bbq' confuses things - I remember it confusing me one time, and I had to check the dictionary to remind myself of the full spelling.
And as I think I’ve mentioned before, here (North Carolina), “barbecue” used on its own never means the apparatus on which food is cooked; it only means a specific style of barbecued pork.
BTW, one of the oldest churches in these parts is Barbecue Presbyterian, so named because of its location near Barbecue Creek, from which the mists rose like smoke from a barbecue pit. The church was founded by Scottish Highlanders in the mid-18th Century; Flora MacDonald had connections to/relatives in the congregation.
Interesting. I was in a largely Mennonite part of Canada, and still heard the close diphthongs I was describing. I knew Newfoundland people too, and they said their accent was different, though it took me a while to hear the difference. To begin with, as a Brit in Canada, the differences between Canadian speech and British speech were the only thing I heard. Then after a while I heard differences within Canadian accents, but they were in addition to the differences between Canadian and British. As an English person, I know there are many English accents, but there are certain things that enable me to identify that an accent is English and not, say, Australian, or American.
It's odd, when I first went to Canada, the accent I heard simply sounded American. Canadians themselves would tell me how their accent differed from American - they were the ones who told me about the 'out and about' thing (these were Mennonites, in Manitoba), and gradually, after living in Canada a while, if I then heard an US accent on TV, I could tell it wasn't Canadian. Now, having been back in the UK for many years, if I hear a Canadian person speak, say, on a youtube video, I can generally tell they are Canadian, and this is regardless of where in Canada they come from. I don't have a detailed phonetic grasp of the differences between Canadian accents, like I do with English accents, but there are certain close diphthongs that enable me to say 'This sounds like a Canadian accent.'
That doesn't mean that everyone in Canada has the same accent - it just means there are certain identifiable things about Canadian accents, which are perhaps noticed more by non-Canadians. People who are part of a group tend to notice all the variety of differences within it, while people outside of the groups notice the broad differences this group has from their group.
From the episode of the podcast Gastropod that I listened to yesterday, it's quite possible that your American friends were eating a fairly different thing to what you were eating.
I tried licorice with chilli and cranberry in Denmark. That was a mistake.
It grates and I don’t know why.
Could linguists explain?
No, that's a term I've never heard (I'm glad to say). Is that another alternative to taxi?
Nothing against the rideshare drivers. But the companies have made things hard for the (taxi) cab companies, which have had to follow the existing laws and rules.
'Normalcy' is more commonly used in the US, while 'normality' is more commonly used in the UK. Both started being used in the 1800s, with 'normality' being a slightly earlier usage.
You can look this stuff up in the OED online, by the way, if you have a library card of a library that subscribes. Most UK libraries do - just type in your library card number.
When I first heard of uber, it was pitched as exactly a rideshare system (I commute from X to Y at 7:30am. I have 2 spare seats in my car.) but it very swiftly reformed itself into it's current operation as a taxi/minicab service. Don't know if anyone still operates an actual rideshare system.