Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I came across this Facebook meme and thought I would share it here to see if any of you are up to the challenge.

    An example:
    When the young whippersnapper tried to bamboozle me by telling me the whatchamacallit he had was a doohickey I soon set him straight and told him no, in fact, it was a thingamajig. This left him rather gobsmacked and flabbergasted that I knew just what it was, especially when I told him not to try his shenanigans or codswallop on me so he spun around and promoted to skedaddle back over to whatsit's place.
  • There's a Charles Causley poem along those lines, 6 four line verses starting:

    Old Mrs Thing-um-e-bob,
    Lives at you-know-where,

    more here
  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    As an observation of 'persnickety' (one of the words on the list Gramps49 linked to), I find it is only my North American friends who use persnickety, with an 's' in it. In the UK, I've only heard people use it without the 's' - pernickety. The OED has both as separate entries with the same meaning, with 'pernickety' as originally Scottish dialect, and 'persnickety' as North American dialect.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Your flour's cheap ;)

    That and lentils. All local.

    Not a fire pit. A metal thing raised off the ground. People make them. A top loading washing machine drum works.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I came across this Facebook meme and thought I would share it here to see if any of you are up to the challenge.

    An example:
    When the young whippersnapper tried to bamboozle me by telling me the whatchamacallit he had was a doohickey I soon set him straight and told him no, in fact, it was a thingamajig. This left him rather gobsmacked and flabbergasted that I knew just what it was, especially when I told him not to try his shenanigans or codswallop on me so he spun around and promoted to skedaddle back over to whatsit's place.

    Not a use of "promoted" I've ever heard.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    A front loading washing machine drum works too.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    My 11-year-old step-grandson, whose is half American, calls snot-drips 'boogers'. British children call them 'bogeys'. The difference in terminology could possibly cause misunderstanding and even offence in some quarters.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Yes. Over here a bogey is either a one-over-par shot in golf, or something you're afraid of (somewhat related to the boogie-man, which people talk about when they want to deride their children's fears—afraid the boogie-man is going to get you, are you?).
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Whereas here it is aurally indistinguishable from this or (north of the border) this - both sp. bogie.
  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    When I was at Bible School in the north of England, with an international group of students, largely conservative and evangelical, there was a bit of shock/amusement around Americans using 'booger' - as it sounded like 'bugger' in a Northern accent. I remember some Northern locals explaining, and one American telling other Americans in horror that 'Booger means sodomy in England!'
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    In a couple of American novels I've come across Bryn used by girls. It's a fine Welsh name, but very much male (it was my father's). Why did it change, and how widespread is the feminine form?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I haven’t encountered it IRL, either for a boy or a girl.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Your flour's cheap ;)
    Not a fire pit. A metal thing raised off the ground. People make them. A top loading washing machine drum works.

    I don't think the space requirements for a fire pit differ appreciably from those for a fire washing machine. In both cases, it needs to be a safe distance from any buildings, and you need to be in a location where it is reasonable to produce smoke.


  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    When I was at Bible School in the north of England, with an international group of students, largely conservative and evangelical, there was a bit of shock/amusement around Americans using 'booger' - as it sounded like 'bugger' in a Northern accent. I remember some Northern locals explaining, and one American telling other Americans in horror that 'Booger means sodomy in England!'

    That's interesting. Having only encountered booger in print I'd assumed a long oo as in hoot, not a short oo as in book, or indeed bugger.
  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    KarlLB wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    When I was at Bible School in the north of England, with an international group of students, largely conservative and evangelical, there was a bit of shock/amusement around Americans using 'booger' - as it sounded like 'bugger' in a Northern accent. I remember some Northern locals explaining, and one American telling other Americans in horror that 'Booger means sodomy in England!'

    That's interesting. Having only encountered booger in print I'd assumed a long oo as in hoot, not a short oo as in book, or indeed bugger.

    It seems to be either, depending on the accent of the person saying it. Or something a little in between.

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I’ve never heard any pronunciation other than one using the short vowel sound of “book,” such that “booger” rhymes more or less with “sugar.”

  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Well, I guess I heard both because it was a group of people from various parts of the US and Canada. Merriam Webster has both.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I’ve never heard any pronunciation other than one using the short vowel sound of “book,” such that “booger” rhymes more or less with “sugar.”

    Same here, out on the left coast.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re homemade barbecues, grills, fire pits:

    Growing up, I was around the kind made out of an oil drum. I think there are instructions online. But, IIRC, it was sliced through on 3 sides--possibly the 4th. If the 4th was sliced (so the drum was in 2 separate pieces), then there would have been hinges. It had angle braces as legs; some kind of handle; and some kind of grill rack inside.

    I don't know how safe an oil drum is to use, or whether that one had actually been used for oil first. Even with a brand-new one, I might worry about chemicals in/on the metal that might not be food safe.

    FWIW. If you want to try to make one, *please* look online for detailed instructions, and be mindful of safety.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but why do Americans pronounce CARAMEL as CARMEL? Other English speaking countries say CAR-A-MEL. This just doesn't make sense to me.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    In a couple of American novels I've come across Bryn used by girls. It's a fine Welsh name, but very much male (it was my father's). Why did it change, and how widespread is the feminine form?
    I haven’t encountered it IRL, either for a boy or a girl.
    Not even heard of Bryn Terfel?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but why do Americans pronounce CARAMEL as CARMEL? Other English speaking countries say CAR-A-MEL. This just doesn't make sense to me.
    Nor to me. It’s not all Americans who say “carmel,” it’s a regional thing. Where I am, it’s “car-a-mel.”

    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    In a couple of American novels I've come across Bryn used by girls. It's a fine Welsh name, but very much male (it was my father's). Why did it change, and how widespread is the feminine form?
    I haven’t encountered it IRL, either for a boy or a girl.
    Not even heard of Bryn Terfel?
    Sorry, I should have been more clear. @Robert Armin referred to American novels; by “in real life” I meant I have not encountered it as a name used in the US.

  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but why do Americans pronounce CARAMEL as CARMEL? Other English speaking countries say CAR-A-MEL. This just doesn't make sense to me.

    This American pronounces it with three syllables, as does everyone I know. Also, caramelized has four syllables.

    There's a church not far from me named Our Lady of Mount Carmel, but I don't think she was named after a confectionery syrup. :smile:
  • rhubarb wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but why do Americans pronounce CARAMEL as CARMEL? Other English speaking countries say CAR-A-MEL. This just doesn't make sense to me.
    Southern East Coast USA, I say Car-a mel. for the candy but carmel for the sauce and ice cream flavor. I never noticed that until I read your post.

  • There's also quite a difference between Brynmawr and Bryn Mawr, other than a local connection to coal mining.
  • MarthaMartha Shipmate
    It was definitely carmel (and often misspelled as such) when I lived in north Texas. Also mocha was pronounced moe (to rhyme with toe)-ka, whereas in the UK it is pronounced mokka (short o).
  • rhubarb wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but why do Americans pronounce CARAMEL as CARMEL? Other English speaking countries say CAR-A-MEL. This just doesn't make sense to me.

    We say and spell it "carmel". The opposite of what I understand in the UK re "medicine" which is med-i-cine with 3 syllables here.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    Martha wrote: »
    It was definitely carmel (and often misspelled as such) when I lived in north Texas. Also mocha was pronounced moe (to rhyme with toe)-ka, whereas in the UK it is pronounced mokka (short o).
    That's true as regards the 'o', but a lot of us, including me, pronounce the 'ch' like the 'ch' in 'loch'.

    I've no idea, by the way, what the 'right' pronunciation is, or even which language it originally comes from. That's just what I've usually heard.

    Whereas most people would understand yoe-gǝt, I think 'moe-ka' might get a puzzled stare.


  • Another Texan oddity I liked was their rendition of 'vehicle', which came across as 'vee-hickle, almost two words. They could also say the word 'shit' in three syllables, 'shi-i-it', which was quite an achievement. (I was driving a Fiat at the time, so was used to hearing both of those words together in a conversation).
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but why do Americans pronounce CARAMEL as CARMEL? Other English speaking countries say CAR-A-MEL. This just doesn't make sense to me.

    We say and spell it "carmel". The opposite of what I understand in the UK re "medicine" which is med-i-cine with 3 syllables here.

    Three here as well.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    Martha wrote: »
    It was definitely carmel (and often misspelled as such) when I lived in north Texas. Also mocha was pronounced moe (to rhyme with toe)-ka, whereas in the UK it is pronounced mokka (short o).
    That's true as regards the 'o', but a lot of us, including me, pronounce the 'ch' like the 'ch' in 'loch'.

    I've no idea, by the way, what the 'right' pronunciation is, or even which language it originally comes from. That's just what I've usually heard.

    Whereas most people would understand yoe-gǝt, I think 'moe-ka' might get a puzzled stare.


    Arabic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha,_Yemen

    I would imagine a guttural consonant is closer to the original than a simple K sound.
  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    When I was in Canada, people said carmel for caramel.

    Here in the UK, I find some say medicine with three syllables, some with two, and I'm sure, as with plenty of words, people vary their pronunciation according to context. Julie Andrews certainly sang it with three. But a lot of words get shortened here in regular conversation.

    I was once part of an online discussion where Americans were laughing at an ad where Jaguar was pronounced with three syllables instead of two, saying it sounded ridiculous and pretentious and no one pronounces it that way. And Brits were saying 'Well, actually...' and wondering how else it would be pronounced! I had certainly never heard jag-wah before, and thought that sounded daft!

    Now I think of it, 'actually' is another word whose syllable number can vary. Ack-chullee. Act-yoo-ully. People often use the second one when being a bit flippant and tongue-in-cheek in their contradiction. Humour and tone can affect how people pronounce things.
  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I say mocha with a long oh, but I first encountered coffee shop culture in Canada, so that was where I first heard it. I've never heard a Brit say mokka though. But I don't think I've ever been with someone in the UK who's ordered one. People I know tend to order latte, cappuccino, tea or hot chocolate. The OED has both moh-ka and mokka as British pronunciations, and only moh-ka as the US pronunciation.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Appalachia is said to have a language of its own. Take this test to see if you can understand some basic words
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    Well, I got 100%, from England. Apparently, I’m a true Appalachian.

    MMM
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    100% as well. What I didn't know, I could guess.
  • Me too - but that was accepting things like Americans using a word for underwear to describe trousers.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    fineline wrote: »
    Now I think of it, 'actually' is another word whose syllable number can vary. Ack-chullee. Act-yoo-ully. People often use the second one when being a bit flippant and tongue-in-cheek in their contradiction. Humour and tone can affect how people pronounce things.

    Isn't this odd - as these things so often are? As a Brit, I would have said the two syllables was used for comic effect, as though the speaker were a small child, whereas three is for grown up conversations. Your mileage clearly varies (a phrase I learned on the Ship, and have only ever seen here).

  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Oh, and returning to an earlier point, for the first time I'm aware of I've found Fall used for Autumn in an English work. The Doctor Dolittle series are as English as they come,and I spotted the usage in his Garden (1927).
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited May 2020
    MMM wrote: »
    Well, I got 100%, from England. Apparently, I’m a true Appalachian.

    MMM
    Same here.

    Which may be a bit odd as I had to guess some, and some of the words actually have different meanings here. A 'buggy' doesn't mean a shopping trolley here, but a folding pushchair.

  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Many of those were not specifically Appalachian. Some were generally Southern, and others were pretty true across the United States.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    I got
    Me oh my! Congrats y'all, you just did amazing on this quiz! From eating Po'Boys, to using your clicker to scan the channels, you are a true Southerner at heart. You know all the little quirks that make up Appalachian lingo. This probably wasn't even a challenge for you? AMAZING JOB!!
    Quite entertaining since I’m English born and raised and my closest contact with the southern USA is four hours in a transit lounge at Orlando.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Many of those were not specifically Appalachian. Some were generally Southern, and others were pretty true across the United States.
    Yes, and I was surprised to see that the announcement that I scored 100% was accompanied by a picture of Olivia de Haviland as Melanie Wilkes, neither of whom were from Appalachia.

    Speaking of which, that’s another regional marker in the US—whether one says Appa-LAY-sha/Appa-LAY-shun (or cha/chun for the final syllable) or Appa-LATCH-a/Appa-LATCH-an.

    It’s the latter here (North Carolina).

  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited May 2020
    fineline wrote: »
    Now I think of it, 'actually' is another word whose syllable number can vary. Ack-chullee. Act-yoo-ully. People often use the second one when being a bit flippant and tongue-in-cheek in their contradiction. Humour and tone can affect how people pronounce things.

    Isn't this odd - as these things so often are? As a Brit, I would have said the two syllables was used for comic effect, as though the speaker were a small child, whereas three is for grown up conversations. Your mileage clearly varies (a phrase I learned on the Ship, and have only ever seen here).

    Ha, no, that one is used for comic effect too. It's often the emphasis that makes the comic effect. A really exaggerated ACK-chully (or ATCH-ully), in a childish, petulant voice, or a really slow, over-pronounced act-yoo-ully (even act-yoo-hully), in a pedantic, snooty voice. I've come across both used humorously in this way, and equally I find both pronunciations, when not exaggerated and simply part of speech, are used interchangeably and quite unobtrusively.

    (But to clarify - neither is two syllables. It's three syllables versus four syllables, and I find most people, when speaking casually and quickly, will use three, and the speech sounds used are somewhere in between the two exaggerated versions. People assimilate speech sounds a lot more than they realise.)
  • finelinefineline Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Actually... having done a quick search for 'actually's in political speeches, Donimic Raab does get it down to two syllables when speaking very quickly - a kind of 'atch-lee'. But the other two 'actually's in this exchange, which can all be found by doing a search and clicking on the time of the section to go straight to that section of the video, are three syllables. Not an act-yoo-ully to be heard.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    So I'm Appalachian as well - by guess work partly.
  • fineline wrote: »
    Actually... having done a quick search for 'actually's in political speeches, Donimic Raab does get it down to two syllables when speaking very quickly - a kind of 'atch-lee'. But the other two 'actually's in this exchange, which can all be found by doing a search and clicking on the time of the section to go straight to that section of the video, are three syllables. Not an act-yoo-ully to be heard.

    Yes, its one of those words that vary a lot according to speed and informality. I think /achlee/ is common. It would be interesting to find an old recording of the queen, as she may have said /ectuli/. I think that has died out. My wife does a hair-raising imitation of her, as she is very posh. She only has to say "phillip" to have me in fits.
  • smithnsmithn Shipmate Posts: 4
    edited May 2020
    {spam deleted]
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Robert Armin, Dr Dolittle's creator, Hugh Lofting, was born in England, but moved to the US in 1919 and lived there for the rest of his life. He no doubt picked up a few Americanisms.
  • Fall is Dorset dialect, as is sidewalk, going back to the sailing of the Mayflower.
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