What did you sing at church today?

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  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    As congregations get older the range where they can comfortably sing deepens.
    Modern hymn books tend to be pitched to take account of the fact that not everyone singing from them is a boy treble!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    As congregations get older the range where they can comfortably sing deepens.
    Modern hymn books tend to be pitched to take account of the fact that not everyone singing from them is a boy treble!

    Perception of what is "high" varies as well - for me, "high" is "above E natural". YMMV, naturally.

    Hymn books though have always accounted for not everyone being a boy treble. A treble can sing up to an A above the treble stave and even beyond that. Hymns generally don't do things like that! That's why they can have descants.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    Our hymn book often offers a second version of a tune in a lower setting, but our organist always chooses the higher one. This suits me as I struggle below middle C. I have to opt out of the lower notes of Dear Lord and Father( I have no “foolish ways”), and We plough…where I cannot sing “seed on the”.

    I have just had covid which mainly affected my throat so I shall be interested to discover how it has affected my singing voice.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    I'd prefer that whatever hymns are chosen, they be set a good half octave below the pitch at which they'll be played.

    Is your organist transposing up or something? Very few hymns go above a D or Eb which is well within the Bass/Contralto ranges. They're meant to be singable for all voice types.

    AFAIK, he's not transposing up, but so much of what's sung is at notes which several of us have no hope of singing. I think there's a lot in "It's well established that untrained singers have access to their lower registers but find the higher registers more difficult to access" which you mention in your second post. Like most, I've not had any training as a singer.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Out of interest do you know what the highest notes you can sing are? It'd be useful to know where the problem lies for hymn writers and tune setters By comparison, even the Basses in choirs are expected to sing Es and even occasionally Fs above middle C, which is higher than most hymns go.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Can't help you there, I'm sorry. Basses in choirs may well have that ability, but those of us in the congregation find it very hard. Some years ago, the then choir director suggested that we just drop an octave, but that is also very hard when you're half-way through a phrase.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I had to drop an octave when doing some recordings the other day because my cold meant anything above a B was likely to result in a strangled sound followed by a coughing fit. Fortunately the situation was somewhat improved by the following morning.
  • I'd say that, in general, congregational hymns shouldn't go above Eb (and preferably D). Of course there are hymns which have wide ranges: "Londonderry Air" comes to mind, as well as "I vow to thee, my country" (which I'd never choose anyway) - of course that wasn't originally written to be sung!
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    As congregations get older the range where they can comfortably sing deepens.
    Modern hymn books tend to be pitched to take account of the fact that not everyone singing from them is a boy treble!

    Perception of what is "high" varies as well - for me, "high" is "above E natural". YMMV, naturally.

    Hymn books though have always accounted for not everyone being a boy treble. A treble can sing up to an A above the treble stave and even beyond that. Hymns generally don't do things like that! That's why they can have descants.

    My comment about trebles was not meant to be taken literally.
    However the range of most members of congregations is not going to be the same as most experienced regular choir members. It will go neither as high nor as low.
    The book we use, "Laudate" which is much derided for poor editorial standards does manage to pitch things so that they don't go above D. Though both Hark the Herald Angels and Blaenwern go to E. I transpose down to prevent dentures flying around.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    To give an example: During Holy Week, St Sanity has Eucharists each evening. 2 hymns this evening: NEH 96 which is pretty straightforward; then NEH 273, new to us, and with a high last line. Not knowing the hymn at all, I could not have adopted KarlLB's suggestion of dropping an octave. Let's see what happens tomorrow.
  • For those of us who don't have access to NEH, what are they?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    NEH 96: O Thou who through this holy week
    The path of suffering trod

    NEH 273: And now, O Father, mindful of the love
    That brought us, once for all, on Calvary's tree

    Does that help?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Gee D wrote: »
    To give an example: During Holy Week, St Sanity has Eucharists each evening. 2 hymns this evening: NEH 96 which is pretty straightforward; then NEH 273, new to us, and with a high last line. Not knowing the hymn at all, I could not have adopted KarlLB's suggestion of dropping an octave. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

    And now, O Father, mindful of the love? Love that hymn, though I see NEH has it in a higher key than I have in my copy of A&MR.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Gee D wrote: »
    NEH 96: O Thou who through this holy week
    The path of suffering trod

    NEH 273: And now, O Father, mindful of the love
    That brought us, once for all, on Calvary's tree

    Does that help?

    And tunes? (I know neither hymn!)
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    The problem was the last line - far too high for me. We brought the service sheet home and read it again tomorrow.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Gee D wrote: »
    NEH 96: O Thou who through this holy week
    The path of suffering trod

    NEH 273: And now, O Father, mindful of the love
    That brought us, once for all, on Calvary's tree

    Does that help?

    And tunes? (I know neither hymn!)

    https://hymnary.org/tune/unde_et_memores_monk
    for And now, O Father, mindful of the love, usually.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Highest note is a D. Really struggle to see that as high but then if you do, you do. There's no reason that couldn't be done in C or even Bb although I'd struggle to produce much volume down there!

    You might need to alter some Alto and Bass parts though if your choir sings harmony.
  • Thank you. One could easily put it down a semitone although any basses in the choir might grovel a bit!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Thank you. One could easily put it down a semitone although any basses in the choir might grovel a bit!

    You could go lower as I said, but you're going to lose friends in the tenor section as well! I'd reharmonise it I think, if called upon to transpose it down for the congregation while keeping a choir operating. The harmony could even get muddy down there on organ alone. What might be happening is that the melody line is a bit of a compromise between the choir trebles/sopranos and the congregation but that's putting it up a bit for the latter

    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Highest note is a D. Really struggle to see that as high but then if you do, you do. There's no reason that couldn't be done in C or even Bb although I'd struggle to produce much volume down there!

    You might need to alter some Alto and Bass parts though if your choir sings harmony.

    No choir on these services, and so we in the congregation had to struggle with a hymn neither Madame or I can recall singing before.

    Sorry that I cannot help you with the music. We did not use the NEH directly, but what was printed on the service sheet.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Highest note is a D.

    Not in the NEH version, there's it's an Eb:
    https://hymnary.org/hymn/NEH1985/273
  • Gee D wrote: »
    I'd prefer that whatever hymns are chosen, they be set a good half octave below the pitch at which they'll be played.
    Below the pitch at which they'll be played? I assume you mean you wish the hymn would be set a good half-octave below the key in which they’re written? Setting it a good half-octave “below the pitch at which they’ll be played” sounds like you’re wanting the congregation to sing in one key and the organist to play in a different key.

    Dropping a half-octave would likely result in lots of hymns pitched way too low for many. (It would also probably result in lots of dour sounding hymns.) As others have noted, usually transposing down a half-step or step is sufficient to deal with uncomfortably high notes.

  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.
    Which is a pity, since I like it! (I'm assuming you mean the Toolan version).

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.
    Which is a pity, since I like it! (I'm assuming you mean the Toolan version).

    I was just looking as I don't remember it being screech high, and there is at least one arrangement that tops out at Eb, so long as you don't mind digging a shaft down to the A below the treble stave.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.
    Which is a pity, since I like it! (I'm assuming you mean the Toolan version).

    I was just looking as I don't remember it being screech high, and there is at least one arrangement that tops out at Eb, so long as you don't mind digging a shaft down to the A below the treble stave.

    The Ab in fact. Personally I think it's just badly arranged for mixed voices.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Thank you. One could easily put it down a semitone although any basses in the choir might grovel a bit!

    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.

    It goes up to E in ours. But then it goes down to alto A, so you cant really drop it any more.
    A ridiculously wide range for a congregation.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.
    Which is a pity, since I like it! (I'm assuming you mean the Toolan version).

    I was just looking as I don't remember it being screech high, and there is at least one arrangement that tops out at Eb, so long as you don't mind digging a shaft down to the A below the treble stave.

    The Ab in fact. Personally I think it's just badly arranged for mixed voices.

    Good spot - I'm bad enough at working out the note outwith the stave, never mind spotting how the key signature impacts too!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Thank you. One could easily put it down a semitone although any basses in the choir might grovel a bit!

    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.

    It goes up to E in ours. But then it goes down to alto A, so you cant really drop it any more.
    A ridiculously wide range for a congregation.

    It is. That high E will feel a lot higher with that low A in there as well.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Thank you. One could easily put it down a semitone although any basses in the choir might grovel a bit!

    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.

    It goes up to E in ours. But then it goes down to alto A, so you cant really drop it any more.
    A ridiculously wide range for a congregation.

    It is. That high E will feel a lot higher with that low A in there as well.

    And the huge jump up to it as well.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Thank you. One could easily put it down a semitone although any basses in the choir might grovel a bit!

    Don't do "I am the Bread of Life" - that has a high F, God help you.

    It goes up to E in ours. But then it goes down to alto A, so you cant really drop it any more.
    A ridiculously wide range for a congregation.

    It is. That high E will feel a lot higher with that low A in there as well.

    And the huge jump up to it as well.

    Octave. Terrible writing.
  • I'd say that, in general, congregational hymns shouldn't go above Eb (and preferably D). Of course there are hymns which have wide ranges: "Londonderry Air" comes to mind, as well as "I vow to thee, my country" (which I'd never choose anyway) - of course that wasn't originally written to be sung!

    I might be wrong but I suspect that this may also apply to other poems you blithely sing as hymns.

    Or have you checked and vetted them all?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I'd say that, in general, congregational hymns shouldn't go above Eb (and preferably D). Of course there are hymns which have wide ranges: "Londonderry Air" comes to mind, as well as "I vow to thee, my country" (which I'd never choose anyway) - of course that wasn't originally written to be sung!

    I might be wrong but I suspect that this may also apply to other poems you blithely sing as hymns.

    Or have you checked and vetted them all?

    I assumed that BT was referring to the tune rather than the words but now I wondering.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    I'd say that, in general, congregational hymns shouldn't go above Eb (and preferably D). Of course there are hymns which have wide ranges: "Londonderry Air" comes to mind, as well as "I vow to thee, my country" (which I'd never choose anyway) - of course that wasn't originally written to be sung!

    I might be wrong but I suspect that this may also apply to other poems you blithely sing as hymns.

    Or have you checked and vetted them all?
    I think @Baptist Trainfan was referring to the tune (given that he refers to the “wide ranges” of notes), not to the text. The tune is taken from “The Planets,” in which it was not intended to be sung—unlike, say, Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy,” which was written to be sung, albeit it not to Van Dyke’s text “Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee.”

    Though in the context of range, it bears noting that THAXTED (the hymn tune) differs from the tune as found in “The Planets.” In the latter, the last two lives are an octave higher.

  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    I'd say that, in general, congregational hymns shouldn't go above Eb (and preferably D). Of course there are hymns which have wide ranges: "Londonderry Air" comes to mind, as well as "I vow to thee, my country" (which I'd never choose anyway) - of course that wasn't originally written to be sung!

    I might be wrong but I suspect that this may also apply to other poems you blithely sing as hymns.

    Or have you checked and vetted them all?

    I assumed that BT was referring to the tune rather than the words but now I wondering.

    I was referring to the tunes. (But I can't stand the words of "I vow to thee"). Another problematic "song" not originally intended to be sung is "Land of Hope and Glory" when sung to the P&C March as at the Last Night of the Proms - the second time round is too high I think.

    NB The hymn words to "Londonderry Air" are "I cannot tell why he, who angels worship ...".
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host

    NB The hymn words to "Londonderry Air" are "I cannot tell why he, who angels worship ...".

    Or "Lord of the church we pray for our renewing...".
  • Indeed so.
  • OblatusOblatus Shipmate
    The Hymnal 1982 (USA Episcopal hymnal)

    154 All glory, laud, and honor (Valet will ich dir geben)
    156 Ride on! ride on in majesty! (The King's Majesty)
    158 Ah, holy Jesus, how hast thou offended (Herzliebster Jesu)
    168 O sacred head, sore wounded (Herzlich tut mich verlangen)
    160 Cross of Jesus, cross of sorrow (Cross of Jesus)

    Choral:
    Palestrina: Missa Lauda Sion
    Gibbons: Hosanna to the Son of David
    Victoria: Pueri Hebraeorum
    Casali: Improperium exspectavit cor meum
  • Oblatus wrote: »
    The Hymnal 1982 (USA Episcopal hymnal)

    154 . . .
    156 . . .
    158 . . .
    168 . . .
    160 . . .
    Tangent alert: I’ve always found interesting the way in which American Episcopalians primarily refer to hymns by number in the hymnal rather than by title/incipit. Indeed, The Hymnal 1982 doesn't even have titles with the hymns, nor did The Hymnal 1940. I’m not aware of any other denomination in the States this happens in.

    /tangent

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Tangent alert: I’ve always found interesting the way in which American Episcopalians primarily refer to hymns by number in the hymnal rather than by title/incipit. Indeed, The Hymnal 1982 doesn't even have titles with the hymns, nor did The Hymnal 1940. I’m not aware of any other denomination in the States this happens in.

    Do other denominations not have a little board on the wall on which the numbers of the hymns to be sung are listed?

    My standard expectation is that in a church, there will be a wooden board (probably made of oak or similar) with five or six slots, and a box full of numbers (probably black text on white plastic) that will be slotted in to the board to indicate to the congregation which hymns will be sung.

    (Also note that there are a couple of hymns in the hymnal that appear twice with different tunes.)
  • Extremely common in Uk, for churches which (still) use hymnbooks.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Tangent alert: I’ve always found interesting the way in which American Episcopalians primarily refer to hymns by number in the hymnal rather than by title/incipit. Indeed, The Hymnal 1982 doesn't even have titles with the hymns, nor did The Hymnal 1940. I’m not aware of any other denomination in the States this happens in.

    Do other denominations not have a little board on the wall on which the numbers of the hymns to be sung are listed?

    My standard expectation is that in a church, there will be a wooden board (probably made of oak or similar) with five or six slots, and a box full of numbers (probably black text on white plastic) that will be slotted in to the board to indicate to the congregation which hymns will be sung.

    (Also note that there are a couple of hymns in the hymnal that appear twice with different tunes.)
    I’ve occasionally seen hymn boards in (American) Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran and Catholic churches, though not with anything like the regularity with which I’ve seen them in Episcopal churches. At least in Presbyterian churches in my experience, they’re fairly rare. The norm would be a bulletin (service sheet) that lists the hymns, along with providing other parts of the service.

    And of course, the hymns in our hymnals are numbered, and that’s how they’re found when it’s time to sing them.

    But that’s really the only context in which we refer to the number—as a page reference so that we can quickly find it in the hymnal. If you asked what we sang yesterday, I’d say Hosanna, Loud Hosanna, not “hymn 197.” In contrast, I regularly hear Episcopalians—clergy and musicians, at least—use the hymn number, not the title or incipit, in similar circumstances. I’ve heard Episcopalians say things like “You really can’t have Palm Sunday without hymn 154, or Easter without hymn 207,” without ever saying the name of the hymn they’re talking about. That experience is consistent with how @Oblatus used the hymn numbers in listing what was sung at his place yesterday, though he also provided titles.

  • Leorning CnihtLeorning Cniht Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Well, the hymnal has, for example, "Alleluia! Sing to Jesus!" to Hydrofoil as hymn 460, and to "Alleluia" as hymn 461.

    Clearly there are some dull, dreary people in the church somewhere for whom the presence of 461 in the hymnal is of value.

    If you don't use the hymn number, some philistine is going to play the wrong tune :wink:
  • Well, the hymnal has, for example, "Alleluia! Sing to Jesus!" to Hydrofoil as hymn 460, and to "Alleluia" as hymn 461.

    Clearly there are some dull, dreary people in the church somewhere for whom the presence of 461 in the hymnal is of value.

    If you don't use the hymn number, some philistine is going to play the wrong tune :wink:
    I don’t think I’m being clear. I’m not saying no one else uses hymn numbers. We all do.

    I’m saying that in my experience, The Hymnal 1940 and The Hymnal 1982 are unique among American hymnals in not having hymn titles at the top of the page. (I realize this is more common in British hymnals.) And along with the fact that on the pages of the hymnal the hymns are identified only by number and not also by name, Episcopalians—again, at least some clergy and musicians—are the only folk I’ve encountered who refer to hymns as though the number is the name of the hymn. I’ve heard statements like “We had hymn 488 sung at our wedding” or “I had hymn 333 sung at my ordination.” Or the example I gave above: “You really can’t have Palm Sunday without hymn 154, or Easter without hymn 207,” without ever further identifying the hymn being talking referenced.*

    So it’s not the reference to numbers that I find noticeable. It’s the reference to numbers as the default way to name hymns that has caught my ear.

    I’m not saying all Episcopalians do it. But I’ve heard it enough times from enough different people that it seems to be a thing, at least in some circles. And I’ve never heard it from anyone who’s not an Episcopalian.

    * For the record Be Thou My Vision, Now the Silence, All Glory, Laud and Honor and Jesus Christ is Risen Today.

  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    Yesterday our Methodist host congregation joined us for the blessing of the palms and procession. When we got back into the building, we parted for our separate services in different parts of the building. It seemed to work well. We got one of the Methodist children to be the voice on the inside of the closed church doors asking "Who is this King of glory?" in response to verses from Psalm 23.

    During the procession we sang Gloria, Laus et Honor to the proper melody, i.e. the one actually composed by St Theodulf of Orléans rather than the modern tune named after him.
  • OblatusOblatus Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I’m saying that in my experience, The Hymnal 1940 and The Hymnal 1982 are unique among American hymnals in not having hymn titles at the top of the page. (I realize this is more common in British hymnals.)

    These two hymnals index their texts by first line; there's no separate title. I suppose there's no need to put the first line in big type at the top when you can see the first line on the same page.

    In UK hymnals, the numbers are attached to the texts, making it necessary sometimes to indicate the tune (i., or ii., for instance) to be used. Or another hymn number is given of a hymn that has the tune to be used for the specified text: Hymn 435 (tune 608).

    The Hymnal 1982 is unique in attaching the numbers to text/tune combinations, so hymns 104 and 105 (for instance; I don't know) might have the identical text but different tunes. So no indication of the tune is needed, although many churches provide the tune name anyway.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Oblatus wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I’m saying that in my experience, The Hymnal 1940 and The Hymnal 1982 are unique among American hymnals in not having hymn titles at the top of the page. (I realize this is more common in British hymnals.)

    These two hymnals index their texts by first line; there's no separate title. I suppose there's no need to put the first line in big type at the top when you can see the first line on the same page.
    But every other American hymnal I’m familiar with does put the title/first line in big type at the top of the page, and that, not the number, is how people refer to the hymn, except when the number is used so you know which page to open to.

    The Hymnal 1982 is unique in attaching the numbers to text/tune combinations, so hymns 104 and 105 (for instance; I don't know) might have the identical text but different tunes.
    That’s really not unique at all. Lots of hymnals do that; every Presbyterian hymnal published over the last century does. But they also put the same title/first line at the top of both hymn 104 and 105 (to use your numbers).

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    I'd prefer that whatever hymns are chosen, they be set a good half octave below the pitch at which they'll be played.
    Below the pitch at which they'll be played? I assume you mean you wish the hymn would be set a good half-octave below the key in which they’re written? Setting it a good half-octave “below the pitch at which they’ll be played” sounds like you’re wanting the congregation to sing in one key and the organist to play in a different key.

    Dropping a half-octave would likely result in lots of hymns pitched way too low for many. (It would also probably result in lots of dour sounding hymns.) As others have noted, usually transposing down a half-step or step is sufficient to deal with uncomfortably high notes.

    Your assumption was correct. Not sure about the remainder of that paragraph though, I don't see the implication you do.

    As to your second paragraph - yes, it will mean that a hymn will be too low for many, but with them pitched as written, they're too high for many. Why can't the people for whom it becomes too low transpose a half-step higher?

  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    edited April 2022
    Gee D wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    I'd prefer that whatever hymns are chosen, they be set a good half octave below the pitch at which they'll be played.
    Below the pitch at which they'll be played? I assume you mean you wish the hymn would be set a good half-octave below the key in which they’re written? Setting it a good half-octave “below the pitch at which they’ll be played” sounds like you’re wanting the congregation to sing in one key and the organist to play in a different key.

    Dropping a half-octave would likely result in lots of hymns pitched way too low for many. (It would also probably result in lots of dour sounding hymns.) As others have noted, usually transposing down a half-step or step is sufficient to deal with uncomfortably high notes.

    Your assumption was correct. Not sure about the remainder of that paragraph though, I don't see the implication you do.

    As to your second paragraph - yes, it will mean that a hymn will be too low for many, but with them pitched as written, they're too high for many. Why can't the people for whom it becomes too low transpose a half-step higher?

    When I was in my final year at school I was required to take my turn in playing the piano for the hymn at morning assembly for the upper school (i.e. boys aged 13-18). The music master's instruction regarding pitch was that the compass of a tune should normally be contained within the ocatve from middle C upwards. Extended compass should go first down a note, and then up a note, as necessary.

    The result of this was that I had a good collection of transposed tunes from Songs of Praise, which were very useful in the next year as organ scholas at an all male Oxford College.

    As organist at my village church while still at school, I found the Transposed Tune Book for Hymns A & M Revised very useful.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    As to your second paragraph - yes, it will mean that a hymn will be too low for many, but with them pitched as written, they're too high for many. Why can't the people for whom it becomes too low transpose a half-step higher?
    And sing in a different key from everyone else?

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    As to your second paragraph - yes, it will mean that a hymn will be too low for many, but with them pitched as written, they're too high for many. Why can't the people for whom it becomes too low transpose a half-step higher?
    And sing in a different key from everyone else?

    That's far from unknown at present.




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