"We have no place else to go": Conflict in the Middle East

1192021222325»

Comments

  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    The Guardian has a piece up reviewing the Basement Films documentary on doctors in Gaza:

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/jul/03/gaza-doctors-under-attack-review-channel-4-crucial-film-stuff-of-nightmares

    And Mohammed El-Kurd has an own voice piece in The Nation:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/world/mohammed-el-kurd-book-excerpt/
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Marginally. Maybe. If anyone believes what Starmer says anymore.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited July 29
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    It's intended to be pressure on Israel. I'd be surprised if it works.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited July 29
    It's a entirely cynical delaying tactic which will likely lead to rules-lawyering of 'substantive steps'.

    It's good because it exposes the sub-colonial logic along which Starmer operates.

    This is his idea of compromise because he cannot imagine a world in which Palestinians have rights.
  • TubbsTubbs Admin Emeritus, Epiphanies Host
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    No. But TBF, I'm not sure anyone's intervention is likely to raise the chances of a ceasefire. Not even Trump's.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Tubbs wrote: »
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    No. But TBF, I'm not sure anyone's intervention is likely to raise the chances of a ceasefire. Not even Trump's.

    Trump cutting off military supplies and imposing trade sanctions might do it, but that's about as likely as the Chief Rabbi dining on pork wings.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Canada amongst those pledging to recognize Palestinian state. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-canada-recognize-palestinian-state-conditions-1.7597525
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Carney is offering a pre-emptive land acknowledgement and little else.
  • Taking a position is surely a good start.
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.

    Why is it a racist stance?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.

    Why is it a racist stance?

    Because of the first sentence you quoted; it's something owed to the Palestinians by right, it's not something to tied to the bad behaviour of some other party.

    Starmer's logic is that as long as there are 'substantive steps' (say there's one week ceasefire) the occupation can continue in perpetuity (including the continued ethnic cleansing of the West Bank)
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.

    Why is it a racist stance?

    Starmer's logic is that as long as there are 'substantive steps' (say there's one week ceasefire) the occupation can continue in perpetuity (including the continued ethnic cleansing of the West Bank)

    The reverse of that is even blunter. What the Palestinians do or do not get is contingent on what Israel does or doesn’t do.

    That’s the biggest problem with it. The second biggest, regardless of their behaviour, is it’s being held out to Israel as a lopsided threat. Ie, ‘if you don’t do xyz well explicitly take sides and they’ll get abc. There are no similar restrictions on them.’
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited August 1
    The reverse of that is even blunter. What the Palestinians do or do not get is contingent on what Israel does or doesn’t do.

    Which is only an issue if you think this is an even remotely a good faith initiative to grant Palestinians self determination and also believe that self-determination *should* be contingent on some other party.
    That’s the biggest problem with it. The second biggest, regardless of their behaviour, is it’s being held out to Israel as a lopsided threat. Ie, ‘if you don’t do xyz well explicitly take sides and they’ll get abc. There are no similar restrictions on them.’

    The UK is already explicitly taking sides, and I'd ask you at which point in the last few decades Israel wouldn’t have viewed the prospect of self determination for the Palestinians as a "lopsided threat".
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    B'Tselem have issued a report calling the situation in Gaza a genocide:

    https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide

    They have come under criticism on social media from Palestinians for not listening to Palestinian voices who were saying the same thing since late 2023.

    The guardian has a piece about the continuity of the current situation with the pre-October 7th blockade of Gaza:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/31/the-mathematics-of-starvation-how-israel-caused-a-famine-in-gaza

    If you've read Eyal Weizman, or Sara Roy this will be familiar territory.

    Finally Isaac Chotiner has a couple of pieces in the New Yorker interviewing a senior Israeli journalist and a former Israeli official on the politics of the blockade within Gaza:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-the-israeli-right-explains-the-aid-disaster-it-created
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-political-motives-behind-the-gaza-aid-catastrophe
Sign In or Register to comment.