"We have no place else to go": Conflict in the Middle East

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Comments

  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    The Guardian has a piece up reviewing the Basement Films documentary on doctors in Gaza:

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/jul/03/gaza-doctors-under-attack-review-channel-4-crucial-film-stuff-of-nightmares

    And Mohammed El-Kurd has an own voice piece in The Nation:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/world/mohammed-el-kurd-book-excerpt/
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Marginally. Maybe. If anyone believes what Starmer says anymore.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited July 29
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    It's intended to be pressure on Israel. I'd be surprised if it works.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited July 29
    It's a entirely cynical delaying tactic which will likely lead to rules-lawyering of 'substantive steps'.

    It's good because it exposes the sub-colonial logic along which Starmer operates.

    This is his idea of compromise because he cannot imagine a world in which Palestinians have rights.
  • TubbsTubbs Admin Emeritus, Epiphanies Host
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    No. But TBF, I'm not sure anyone's intervention is likely to raise the chances of a ceasefire. Not even Trump's.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Tubbs wrote: »
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    No. But TBF, I'm not sure anyone's intervention is likely to raise the chances of a ceasefire. Not even Trump's.

    Trump cutting off military supplies and imposing trade sanctions might do it, but that's about as likely as the Chief Rabbi dining on pork wings.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Canada amongst those pledging to recognize Palestinian state. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-canada-recognize-palestinian-state-conditions-1.7597525
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Carney is offering a pre-emptive land acknowledgement and little else.
  • Taking a position is surely a good start.
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.

    Why is it a racist stance?
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.

    Why is it a racist stance?

    Because of the first sentence you quoted; it's something owed to the Palestinians by right, it's not something to tied to the bad behaviour of some other party.

    Starmer's logic is that as long as there are 'substantive steps' (say there's one week ceasefire) the occupation can continue in perpetuity (including the continued ethnic cleansing of the West Bank)
  • betjemaniacbetjemaniac Shipmate
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    Do we think Starmer’s intervention raises the chances of a ceasefire ?

    Self determination is the Palestinians by right, it isn't a consolation prize for being massacred.

    It'll be viewed quite rightly as incredibly racist.

    Why is it a racist stance?

    Starmer's logic is that as long as there are 'substantive steps' (say there's one week ceasefire) the occupation can continue in perpetuity (including the continued ethnic cleansing of the West Bank)

    The reverse of that is even blunter. What the Palestinians do or do not get is contingent on what Israel does or doesn’t do.

    That’s the biggest problem with it. The second biggest, regardless of their behaviour, is it’s being held out to Israel as a lopsided threat. Ie, ‘if you don’t do xyz well explicitly take sides and they’ll get abc. There are no similar restrictions on them.’
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