Local and National Elections in the UK

HugalHugal Shipmate
So far this morning Reform have gained the most councillors but control no councils. Several councils have gone to no overall control. The Greens and the Lib Dems have also made gains. Labour and The Conservatives are both down a lot. The voter count is up. Still very early Greens anticipating gaining well on London. Reform doing well in areas that voted for Brexit as was anticipated.
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Comments

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited May 8
    We're sliding towards a populist right disaster. I'd be fucking terrified if I were disabled, struggling to find work, LGBTQ+, an immigrant or a Muslim. I'm pretty damned scared as it is of seeing all our progress towards ameliorating climate change going down the shitter.

    God help us.
  • As of 7.30 am, Reform have taken Newcastle under Lyme and look like they have only been prevented from taking others because of the weird administrative rules (in some places only a third of the council seats are up for election).

    It feels like there's a wave of contrary-ism sweeping the section of the population who reliably vote (mostly older white people, though there are obviously regional variations). It seems that they are aware of the utter chaos that Reform have caused everywhere that they've had control in local government but think "yes, we would like a bit of that here too."

    Part of the problem is that the Far-Right agenda is dominating the discussion. Labour objectively haven't done much wrong, particularly when one considers that they were elected as the "grownups" following many years of poor government by the Tories.

    And it seems like a lot of people think "oh no, we want more chaos".
  • BasketactortaleBasketactortale Shipmate
    edited May 8
    I was talking to an elderly relative the other day. They have various health issues and in recent years have had multiple visits to the hospital consultants. Most recently the GP refused to refer them again as they said their symptoms were age-related and as they had already been seen by many different consultants from different disciplines, there was nothing else medically to be done. Bear in mind they have a condition which impacts on their lives and makes them uncomfortable but is not immediately life-threatening like cancer. They are approaching 90 in reasonably good health.

    They are now telling everyone that they have been failed by the NHS and that this has been caused by international students in medical schools.

    It is so stupid that it is hard to know where to begin.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I’d be interested to know what the turnout has been like this election. It is usually somewhat lower between generally elections, but has hit 40% in at least some parts of London.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    I was a polling clerk yesterday for the Holyrood elections. Our turnout, of those who hadn't voted by post, was under 50%. Assuming that all those who had a postal vote used it, turn out was 57% which seems low.

    It's the middle of exam time for our 16 / 17 year olds, so we didn't have any voters in school uniform. There wasn't the buzz about first time voters there might otherwise be, but it was good to have a few in with their parents for whom it was an exciting milestone.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host

    Part of the problem is that the Far-Right agenda is dominating the discussion. Labour objectively haven't done much wrong, particularly when one considers that they were elected as the "grownups" following many years of poor government by the Tories.

    Apart from targeting immigrants, trans people and disabled people, and trying to terrorise British Jews with another politically motivated anti-semitism scare? Oh and aiding and abetting genocide.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited May 8

    Part of the problem is that the Far-Right agenda is dominating the discussion. Labour objectively haven't done much wrong, particularly when one considers that they were elected as the "grownups" following many years of poor government by the Tories.

    Apart from targeting immigrants, trans people and disabled people, and trying to terrorise British Jews with another politically motivated anti-semitism scare? Oh and aiding and abetting genocide.

    And then telling anyone who objected that if they didn't like it they could leave.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    We all know about Reform and immigration.
    Now we all get the chance to see how good they are at running education, social care, rubbish collection and education. How much better will they be under Reform control?
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    My MP has spent the last few weeks touring the country talking up Reform and repeating scare stories about Immigrants. We had an important event in town a couple of weeks ago which he didn't make as he was in Cleethorpes serving fish and chips instead.
    Reform ran this election as a cross between a General election a referendum on Starmer, and I'm afraid a lot of people bought into their narrative. I thought the shine was beginning to come off Reform, and I sincerely hope by the next General Election it has.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    They haven't run out of other people to blame yet, don't get your hopes up.
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    In Havering it looked like the biggest shift was Tory voters changing their allegiance to Reform.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Merry Vole wrote: »
    In Havering it looked like the biggest shift was Tory voters changing their allegiance to Reform.

    Yes, as John Curtice has pointed out Tory voters have shifted to Reform, while many Labour voters have either stayed at home or voted Green, the two things in tandem are likely end with Reform winning on fairly low vote shares.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 8
    Labour has lost Westminster City Council to the Tories.
    :disappointed:

    Hackney, however, now has a Green mayor (and the turnout was about 41%).
    :smile:

    There appear to be a few NOCs (No Overall Control). I'm never sure as to whether NOCs are a Good Thing or not IYSWIM.

    Nothing yet from the Holyrood or Senedd elections.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    edited May 8
    First Scottish result - Lib Dems hold Orkney, with an increased share of the vote.
  • SandemaniacSandemaniac Shipmate
    First Scottish result - Lib Dems hold Orkney, with an increased share of the vote.

    Still voting for Jo Grimond?
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    edited May 8
    If the Lib Dems were ever to lose Orkney it would be a sign of the Apocalypse :smile:
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    Stop press - Shetland's gone SNP!
    Not sure what this means for the Apocalypse- but eyeing the street anxiously for lions, lambs etc...
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    The results for England will not help our growing relationship with the EU
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    About as expected. The attraction of Reform in the UK is about as hard for me to understand as the attraction of MAGA in the USA.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Louise wrote: »
    Stop press - Shetland's gone SNP!
    Not sure what this means for the Apocalypse- but eyeing the street anxiously for lions, lambs etc...

    Certainly going to make the next astroturf unionist scaremongering about Shetland leaving Scotland in the event of independence a bit tricky.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    We're sliding towards a populist right disaster. I'd be fucking terrified if I were disabled, struggling to find work, LGBTQ+, an immigrant or a Muslim. I'm pretty damned scared as it is of seeing all our progress towards ameliorating climate change going down the shitter.

    God help us.
    God help us all.

  • Wasn't it Orkney Council who, some years back, were contemplating union with Norway? Well, Kirkwall is closer to Oslo than to London...

    Down in England, much as expected, as @Barnabas62 says. The customary low turn-out is disappointing.
  • SipechSipech Shipmate
    In my non-Ship life, I do quite a bit of financial modelling. Last year (so the most up to date), I turned that skill to modelling for the general election, constituency by constituency. If the polls were to be believed, Labour and Reform would vying for being the largest party, but without a majority. Only the Conservatives would likely go into coalition with Reform, but given the cannibalisation of votes, that coalition couldn't be a majority. On the left, you would need a grand coalition of Labour + Lib Dem + Green + SNP to get a majority. I doubt that would happen. So at the next General Election, I predict chaos and stalemate that would make 2010 look smooth and seamless.

    Will dig out the model and update sometime.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    First results from Wales. PC 2, Reform 2, Lab 1, Cons 1
  • BasketactortaleBasketactortale Shipmate
    edited May 8
    I think Plaid Cymru and Reform will end up with about the same number of seats in Wales, which probably means a PC-led minority government in Cardiff Bay.

    Meanwhile here in Birmingham, the predictions are that the local government will have no overall control and therefore likely complete paralysis. Which is a disaster given that Birmingham is the biggest council in England.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    The constituency votes in Scotland currently stand at SNP 28, Conservative 2, Labour 1, Lib Dems 1, but of course under the d'Hondt system, the list members will balance this out.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Here in Scotland it's looking like Reform are going to be trounced in the constituency votes, consensus at this count is a strong anti Reform tactical vote where they might do well, even with people voting Conservative if they are most likely to do so.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Latest from Wales. PC 16, Reform 13, Lab 3, Cons 2 and Greens 1
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Lorna Slater has taken Edinburgh Central for the Greens.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    Yay!
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Cool
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I wondered for a moment if it would shut up all the ambulant pink thumbs pissing and moaning about her only having a seat via the regional list then thought: nah.
  • I'm actually feeling much more positive than I was this morning;

    Reform have gained seats everywhere, but so far they have only gained control of 5 local authorities. LibDems have gained 1, NOC gained 11.

    Put alongside the fairly severe loss in Wales (in the sense that they're only going to be in opposition, they have gained lots of seats) and the likely outcome in Scotland (where I don't understand the system, it isn't going to be as good a day as Farage makes out.

    It's not good that Reform control more authorities but it is interesting that the main gain so far in England seems to have been NOC.
  • NOC - no overall control. I would imagine that in the majority of places other parties will be wanting to keep Reform out.
  • Sorry I think I was just looking at the District Council results but it looks like the County Councils have a similar pattern in England.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    The First Minister of Wales has lost her seat in the Senedd.
  • Sarasa wrote: »
    My MP has spent the last few weeks touring the country talking up Reform and repeating scare stories about Immigrants. We had an important event in town a couple of weeks ago which he didn't make as he was in Cleethorpes serving fish and chips instead.
    Reform ran this election as a cross between a General election a referendum on Starmer, and I'm afraid a lot of people bought into their narrative. I thought the shine was beginning to come off Reform, and I sincerely hope by the next General Election it has.

    It might be possible for Reform to have enough time to have made enough of a pigs ear in local councils, that folks are less confident about voting for them in the next GE.
  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    Sarasa wrote: »
    My MP has spent the last few weeks touring the country talking up Reform and repeating scare stories about Immigrants. We had an important event in town a couple of weeks ago which he didn't make as he was in Cleethorpes serving fish and chips instead.
    Reform ran this election as a cross between a General election a referendum on Starmer, and I'm afraid a lot of people bought into their narrative. I thought the shine was beginning to come off Reform, and I sincerely hope by the next General Election it has.

    It might be possible for Reform to have enough time to have made enough of a pigs ear in local councils, that folks are less confident about voting for them in the next GE.

    Please God
    I never thought I'd read about the tories taking somewhere and feel relief.... thar it wasn't reform.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Sarasa wrote: »
    My MP has spent the last few weeks touring the country talking up Reform and repeating scare stories about Immigrants. We had an important event in town a couple of weeks ago which he didn't make as he was in Cleethorpes serving fish and chips instead.
    Reform ran this election as a cross between a General election a referendum on Starmer, and I'm afraid a lot of people bought into their narrative. I thought the shine was beginning to come off Reform, and I sincerely hope by the next General Election it has.

    It might be possible for Reform to have enough time to have made enough of a pigs ear in local councils, that folks are less confident about voting for them in the next GE.

    One can hope. But that would require a degree of observational ability and deductive reasoning not normally associated with people voting Reform.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited May 8
    It is particularly sad to see people vote for Proto-facists on the anniversary of VE Day.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    They might as well start wearing Black Shirts.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    I was observing at our local count, I womanfully restraining myself from wandering up to someone wearing a Reform rosette and asking them what first attracted them to facism, very tempted though.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    It is particularly sad to see people vote for Proto-facists on the anniversary of VE Day.

    In my experience, the cult of World War II is pretty easily harnessed in propagandistic service of reactionary politics, assuming people even connect it to any sorta politics at all. "I can't imagine what the men who died for our freedoms in Europe would say if they could see the bloody trash heap the socialists are making of this country."
  • quetzalcoatlquetzalcoatl Shipmate
    It is particularly sad to see people vote for Proto-facists on the anniversary of VE Day.

    Yes, but I don't think they would make that link. The idea that WW2 was a fight against fascism is lost.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    It is particularly sad to see people vote for Proto-facists on the anniversary of VE Day.

    And a Holocaust Denier was elected on Merseyside.
    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/reform-uk-candidate-who-said-33914559
  • quetzalcoatlquetzalcoatl Shipmate
    And presumably, they don't see themselves as fascist.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    And presumably, they don't see themselves as fascist.

    For a long time now, "nazism" and "fascism" have been used as stand-ins for whatever ideology a given opinionator doesn't like.

    In the movie from a few years back Blinded by the Light, about an ethnically Pakistani teenager growing up in 80s Britain, there was a plot-strand about the kid encountering his curmudgeonly old WW2 veteran neighbour, and fearfully assuming the man might be sympathetic to certain racist movements in the UK at the time. He's joyfully surprised when the neighbour opines something like "Those thugs are exactly what we fought against in the war, and I won't have them now!" IME, at least in Canada, that's not a common ideological connection people make.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Alan29 wrote: »
    It is particularly sad to see people vote for Proto-facists on the anniversary of VE Day.

    And a Holocaust Denier was elected on Merseyside.
    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/reform-uk-candidate-who-said-33914559

    Meanwhile the largest community newspaper invites his party leader to pontificate about the threat of antisemitism:

    https://www.thejc.com/opinion/jews-are-now-living-in-danger-and-the-governments-failure-to-confront-the-root-causes-is-a-national-disgrace-ovwpyomc
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    Sarasa wrote: »
    My MP has spent the last few weeks touring the country talking up Reform and repeating scare stories about Immigrants. We had an important event in town a couple of weeks ago which he didn't make as he was in Cleethorpes serving fish and chips instead.
    Reform ran this election as a cross between a General election a referendum on Starmer, and I'm afraid a lot of people bought into their narrative. I thought the shine was beginning to come off Reform, and I sincerely hope by the next General Election it has.

    It might be possible for Reform to have enough time to have made enough of a pigs ear in local councils, that folks are less confident about voting for them in the next GE.

    I think this might work for a some, but there's a good section of their support who just want to smash things up, or will readily accept a series of escalating excuses ("We are being stopped from doing proper Reform policy by the woke civil service/woke Westminster blob" and so on).
  • stetson wrote: »
    And presumably, they don't see themselves as fascist.

    For a long time now, "nazism" and "fascism" have been used as stand-ins for whatever ideology a given opinionator doesn't like.

    In the movie from a few years back Blinded by the Light, about an ethnically Pakistani teenager growing up in 80s Britain, there was a plot-strand about the kid encountering his curmudgeonly old WW2 veteran neighbour, and fearfully assuming the man might be sympathetic to certain racist movements in the UK at the time. He's joyfully surprised when the neighbour opines something like "Those thugs are exactly what we fought against in the war, and I won't have them now!" IME, at least in Canada, that's not a common ideological connection people make.

    This is not about lazily labeling people one doesn't like as 'Nszis'. This is about actual fascists.
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