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Of Episcopal Clobber

Where did the fashion for prelates wearing violet clerical shirts originate, and when? US Anglican bishops almost always take to the purple, English ones mostly purple with some opting for black (the more Anglo-Catholic ones perhaps leaning to black clerical shirts?).

I suspect this has something to do with purple episcopal cassocks, and wonder when that fashion originated? Archbishops Lang and Temple are both portrayed in purple cassocks in portraits, so at least as far back as the early C20...

Comments

  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    The late Bishop of Connor Samuel Poyntz, used to wear purple socks with sandals in the summer (along with an episcopal purple shirt).
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    It used to be said that purple silk underpants were a thing.
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    It used to be said that purple silk underpants were a thing.

    But mostly worn by ambitious lesser clerics, if rumour is to be believed.
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    English ones mostly purple with some opting for black (the more Anglo-Catholic ones perhaps leaning to black clerical shirts?).

    This is probably true, though it seems counterintuitive: one might expect austere evangelicals preferring black. Apart from ++Justin Welby, most evangelical bishops, as well as MOTR ones, seem to go for purple. Perhaps it's because RC bishops normally wear black shirts that many anglo-catholic ones do.

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    You might enjoy this.

    Also, purple silk underpants are definitely a thing.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I noticed Lutheran bishops started wearing purple clericals in the mid 70s, but we are usually a few years later following Anglican fashions.
  • You might enjoy this.

    Also, purple silk underpants are definitely a thing.

    That particular bishop appears to be wearing his mitre incorrectly
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Robertus L wrote: »
    You might enjoy this.

    Also, purple silk underpants are definitely a thing.

    That particular bishop appears to be wearing his mitre incorrectly

    Hahaha!
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited October 16
    It is quite disturbing that anyone, even in 1909 or 1926, should have been precious enough to have devoted his energies to writing just short of 350 pages on this arcane subject.

  • Robertus L wrote: »
    You might enjoy this.

    Also, purple silk underpants are definitely a thing.

    That particular bishop appears to be wearing his mitre incorrectly

    Has the bishop been bashed, one wonders?
  • Enoch wrote: »
    It is quite disturbing that anyone, even in 1909 or 1926, should have been precious enough to have devoted his energies to writing just short of 350 pages on this arcane subject.

    Even as late as the 1950s, nosebleed-high Anglo=Catholics were following the arcane instructions found in Ritual Notes, an attempt to apply Roman Catholic rules to the 1662 Prayer Book.

    One liturgist of the 1980s described the performance of accommodating a Bishop at High Mass as 'dressing and undressing the Bishop to music'.

  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Even as late as the 1950s, nosebleed-high Anglo=Catholics were following the arcane instructions found in Ritual Notes, an attempt to apply Roman Catholic rules to the 1662 Prayer Book.

    One liturgist of the 1980s described the performance of accommodating a Bishop at High Mass as 'dressing and undressing the Bishop to music'.
    That makes him sound like an episcopal stripper. I hope the boa feathers are in the correct seasonal colours?

  • :lol:

    AIUI, the dressing and undressing were done by a huge team of servers and acolytes, whilst the Bishop himself remained relatively passive.

    To my austere senses, it all sounds totally ridiculous, though the Faithful were expected to find it seemly and edifying, I suppose.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    :lol:

    AIUI, the dressing and undressing were done by a huge team of servers and acolytes, whilst the Bishop himself remained relatively passive.

    To my austere senses, it all sounds totally ridiculous, though the Faithful were expected to find it seemly and edifying, I suppose.

    And in some places they still wait as the bishop arrives in his clobber and then gets changed in a side chapel at the start and then at the end changes back. As far as I know Cardinal Burke is the only one who still wears that stuff. A Google search on his name will turn up pictures of him in gloves and slippers etc.
    I have no idea what it has to do with the Carpenter of Nazareth.
    https://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/1500/qu1516.htm
  • Not a lot, maybe, but the Faithful must be reminded as to which of their clerical masters is the Boss.
    :wink:
  • :lol:

    AIUI, the dressing and undressing were done by a huge team of servers and acolytes, whilst the Bishop himself remained relatively passive.

    To my austere senses, it all sounds totally ridiculous, though the Faithful were expected to find it seemly and edifying, I suppose.

    When an Orthodox Bishop celebrates with full ceremonial you will still see this done in the middle of the church. Outdoor garments are removed, leaving the Bishop just in his cassock, before putting on the full set of liturgical vestments. You can see a good example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Evq0pN5bqU&t=926s (from 8.00 minutes to 15.00 minutes) of the Patriarch of Georgia being vested last Sunday.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Not a lot, maybe, but the Faithful must be reminded as to which of their clerical masters is the Boss.
    :wink:

    Burke isn’t the boss of anything much these days: he was largely sidelined by +++Francis quite a few years ago. I suppose it gives him more time to dress up in OTT rig & hang out with trads.

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Enoch wrote: »
    It is quite disturbing that anyone, even in 1909 or 1926, should have been precious enough to have devoted his energies to writing just short of 350 pages on this arcane subject.

    Even as late as the 1950s, nosebleed-high Anglo=Catholics were following the arcane instructions found in Ritual Notes, an attempt to apply Roman Catholic rules to the 1662 Prayer Book.

    One liturgist of the 1980s described the performance of accommodating a Bishop at High Mass as 'dressing and undressing the Bishop to music'.

    I thought they used the English Missal. Shows how much I know about the ultra-montane wing of Anglicanism. St Percy's recommendations will generally do me.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    The mob at St Magnus the Martyr in London use the Roman Missal🙀
  • Enoch wrote: »
    It is quite disturbing that anyone, even in 1909 or 1926, should have been precious enough to have devoted his energies to writing just short of 350 pages on this arcane subject.

    Even as late as the 1950s, nosebleed-high Anglo=Catholics were following the arcane instructions found in Ritual Notes, an attempt to apply Roman Catholic rules to the 1662 Prayer Book.

    One liturgist of the 1980s described the performance of accommodating a Bishop at High Mass as 'dressing and undressing the Bishop to music'.

    I thought they used the English Missal. Shows how much I know about the ultra-montane wing of Anglicanism. St Percy's recommendations will generally do me.

    Many did indeed use the English Missal, which includes some texts from the BCP. I may have oversimplified...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Missal

    The article also includes a list of churches still using the English Missal, though I'm not sure how up-to-date it is.

  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    :lol:

    AIUI, the dressing and undressing were done by a huge team of servers and acolytes, whilst the Bishop himself remained relatively passive.

    To my austere senses, it all sounds totally ridiculous, though the Faithful were expected to find it seemly and edifying, I suppose.

    And in some places they still wait as the bishop arrives in his clobber and then gets changed in a side chapel at the start and then at the end changes back. As far as I know Cardinal Burke is the only one who still wears that stuff. A Google search on his name will turn up pictures of him in gloves and slippers etc.
    I have no idea what it has to do with the Carpenter of Nazareth.
    https://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/1500/qu1516.htm

    I dislike Cardinal Burke immensely, but it (the clobber) does look fabulous. Conclave would have been a very dull movie without it.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Pomona wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    :lol:

    AIUI, the dressing and undressing were done by a huge team of servers and acolytes, whilst the Bishop himself remained relatively passive.

    To my austere senses, it all sounds totally ridiculous, though the Faithful were expected to find it seemly and edifying, I suppose.

    And in some places they still wait as the bishop arrives in his clobber and then gets changed in a side chapel at the start and then at the end changes back. As far as I know Cardinal Burke is the only one who still wears that stuff. A Google search on his name will turn up pictures of him in gloves and slippers etc.
    I have no idea what it has to do with the Carpenter of Nazareth.
    https://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/1500/qu1516.htm

    I dislike Cardinal Burke immensely, but it (the clobber) does look fabulous. Conclave would have been a very dull movie without it.

    Just so long he doesn't make it all about him <cough, cough. >
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