Church in Wales - recruitment process


Our vicar has formally resigned w/e/f a date in early September, having been de facto absent for a full year. I have been advised that it would be “very unconventional” for any steps to be taken regarding recruiting a replacement until the incumbency has actually terminated. Consequently I am advised we cannot update our parish profile, nor can the upcoming vacancy be listed in the job vacancies section of the diocesan website.
Either what I have been told is nonsense or, more likely I think, a custom has evolved which makes it inevitable that we will have a longer interregnum than necessary.
Have any shipmates had a similar experience?

Comments

  • Not exactly, but the parish next door to Our Place (C of E) had a much-loved vicar who was ill (and unable to work) for some considerable time - a couple of years IIRC - before he finally retired on the grounds of ill-health.

    They, too, were unable to do anything much, other than to keep calm and carry on, but you could, I suppose, at least do some preparatory work in the background, as it were, ready for when your vicar formally goes.
  • Different denominational tradition and different country, but what you describe is absolutely the rule for us—no committee can be formed to search for a new minister (and no action can be taken except by that committee) until the current pastoral relationship has been formally dissolved. And the committee cannot take any formal action in terms of a search until the congregation has engaged in a self-study to clarify what it is looking for in a new minister.


  • Thanks for your comments. There seems to be an inbuilt aversion to sensible and pro-active advance planning.
    Anyway, having initiated this thread and gone back to my inbox, lo! An almost contemporaneous email from our Mission Area Leader - an oddity within the Church in Wales I think - setting out a timetable for advertisements, shortlisting and interviews. Divine intervention or coincidence? Probably the latter, but all’s well etc. etc…
  • Thanks for your comments. There seems to be an inbuilt aversion to sensible and pro-active advance planning.
    Speaking for my people, we’d say it’s an aversion to acting prematurely and too hastily, which we have found too often leads to bad matches between minister and congregation.

    I’m glad all is well!


  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    That is how it works for us. We can't do anything, even if the incumbent has stated clearly that they intend to leave e.g. on their 65th birthday, and has started house-hunting for a property to move into once they have to vacate the manse.
  • The United Reformed Church seems to work in a similar way, in fact churches must wait for the local Synod to declare a vacancy as these have to work within nationally-agreed ministerial deployment numbers.

    Baptist churches, being more independent, can start the process sooner. For instance, I shall be retiring at Easter and have already told my deacons that they should start actively preparing for the future. I have seen cases where profiles have appeared on the national "Settlement List" before a minister has actually retired, although this is unusual.

    Of course it can be good for a church to have a "breathing space" between ministers, to assess where it's going and the sort of minister they need to call. However these gaps can be far too long and detrimental to the congregation's health.

    At present there is a shortage of Baptist ministers. I don't know about the CinW but I do know that our local Ministry Area acted pretty quickly after its leader moved on; it has now advertised twice for a successor but has had no applicants despite being in an area which, one would have thought, would be attractive.
  • We have in fact already had a lengthy harmful gap, as we have neither heard nor seen hide or hair of our incumbent for a full year, despite remaining (technically) in post. I’m still unconvinced that as a general practice there is much merit in delaying recruitment, and that a seamless transition would be the ideal. It seems to me that the same problems could eventuate whether following due process a new incumbent is recruited within a couple of weeks, or several months.
    The analogy which springs to my mind is this. I support a League 1 football team. Suppose we have a superb goalie who is attracting the interest of several Premier League clubs. We knew for months he would be off to pastures new at the end of the season. His contract is terminated with effect from the end of July. The new season now starts tomorrow. Suddenly we think “we need a replacement first team goalie. Maybe we should have thought about this earlier?” (Yes I accept the analogy is probably flawed, but that’s essentially the way I see it).
    Anyway, as it happens things are now moving regarding Our Place for which I am very thankful, and relieved.
  • Obviously we don't know your details; but the situation when a Vicar/Minister is technically in post but not functioning is tricky. I can cite two particular examples of this.

    One was in a Baptist church; the Minister had had a breakdown and was incapable of work. He was always optimistic that "things would get better" although it was obvious to all that this wasn't going to happen. I'm sure that there were many long and fraught discussions among the Deacons. They knew that there would come a point when the church would simply have to "bite the bullet" and seek to appoint a new minister. However they were aware that asking him to retire could have a devastating effect on him, especially as he was living in a Manse and would have to move. This was back in the 70s so employment law was probably different to today's, in any case Baptist ministers are technically "office holders" rather than "employees" of their church. Eventually the decision was taken but it wasn't easy; the Minister actually did improve somewhat after he moved (and took up employment in a Christian bookshop) but he died in his late 50s.

    The other situation was in the Church of England. The Vicar was not only mentally ill but held the living (i.e. he wasn't a priest-in-charge) and had "friends in high places". He refused all suggestions of retirement, partly as he wanted to stay in his very nice vicarage! The Diocese was at its wits' end, partly because it was between bishops, the diocesan having moved on and the suffragan having unexpectedly died. There was also no local archdeacon at the time, the neighbouring one having to carry out the job for two areas. Eventually a compromise was reached: the vicar did retire but stayed living in his house, a new priest-in-charge (still there after many successful years) was appointed and lived in a house purchased for the purpose.

    I hope that neither of these are like your situation!
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    Is there a list of clergy/ministers that count as office holders and those that count as employees? I am somewhat surprised that Baptist ministers would be the former. Do Baptists have manses?

    @DeeValleyBantam what a difficult situation to be stuck in. Has the diocese been helping in general? The idea that an incumbent can just not show up for a year seems astonishing. I feel like there ought to be some kind of legal avenue to go down in such a situation.
  • We haven't been told why the vicar in question has been virtually absent for so long.

    There could be health issues (physical and/or mental) details of which will be confidential. This happened at a church I know of, where a newly-appointed vicar became unwell, and was only able to perform 'light duties'. The latter amounted to taking a mid-week Eucharist, but not the main Sunday Eucharist.
  • Pomona wrote: »
    Do Baptists have manses?
    Usually but not always. Our church has a manse but we have our own house. The manse is rented out, which gives the church an income.

  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    My parish church was in a similar predicament some years ago. The Rector became physically ill and was unable to work at all, but hoped to recover. Months passed and eventually he gave notice. Even then, it was many more months before the process began and more months before the first round of interviews took place…A further year later, after round three a new priest was appointed.

    (He immediately and forcefully dispensed with the two retired priests living in the parish who had held the fort for over three and a half years, but that’s another story.)

    All the preparatory work was already taking place, developing a parish vision etc, but due process caused unnecessary delays.
  • I have heard it said (whisper, whisper) that the filling of posts is deliberately held back in the CofE/CinW, to save money.

    Not so true in Baptist churches which are mostly self-funding; indeed giving may well go down during a vacancy as there is no minister to support (and there could even be extra income too if the manse is let out short-term).
  • PomonaPomona Shipmate
    We haven't been told why the vicar in question has been virtually absent for so long.

    There could be health issues (physical and/or mental) details of which will be confidential. This happened at a church I know of, where a newly-appointed vicar became unwell, and was only able to perform 'light duties'. The latter amounted to taking a mid-week Eucharist, but not the main Sunday Eucharist.

    I assumed that @DeeValleyBantam did not want to disclose potentially identifying details - although I must admit to being intrigued. I assumed that perhaps it is a multi-church situation and that the incumbent hasn't attended their church but may be fulfilling duties elsewhere in the area. I'm not sure how it works in terms of terminology like "incumbent" when spread across multiple churches/parishes.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited August 14
    CinW Ministry Areas are groups of churches with a Team Leader and one or more other clergy and/or staff. In our Area the clergy tend to be linked to just a couple of congregations so they can form relationships; however they also have Area-wide responsibilities (such as Worship & Liturgy or Schools & Youth). Obviously things may be different elsewhere. Clearly the vicar in the OP is not the Area leader but another of the staff members.

    From the CinW website: "A Mission or Ministry Area is a grouping or team of Churches, Parishes or Benefices within a geographic area who work together to share operational and administrative functions. Ministry / Mission Areas may be further split into benefices or parishes. Clerics will be assigned to a Ministry Area although they may be assigned to a specific area of responsibility. Each Ministry / Mission Area will have a Leader."
  • Yes I’d rather not disclose the official reasons for the absence, but I can confirm there’s more to it than simply not showing up. Communication from the diocese via the archdeaconry has been virtually non-existent.
  • Thank you.


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