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A question about candles

Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
in Ecclesiantics
I worshipped at Newport Cathedral today. The services vary in the way they are conducted but today's was very simple - no incense for example.

What intrigued me were the three stumpy candles on the Communion Table, which I've not seen before. Can anyone enlighten me?

See in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIrryDNvHJQ - they show up very clearly from about 3:40.

Comments

  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Since Vatican 2 candles are placed usually one at each side of the front part of the altar table.
    However you will occasionally see the two candles placed close to each other on the same side of the altar.
    Or sometimes you will see just one solitary candle on the altar or even as in this case three together.
    Candles in the preVatican 2 church were usually of a fairly uniform shape
    (and always at least 51% beeswax) but since then you will often see the much chunkier type which don't really need a candlestick.
    I have described practices in the RC Church which are often followed also in the Anglican Church.
    I don't think that there is any hidden 'esoteric' significance in the shape or placing of these candles.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Our congregation is named Trinity Lutheran, and our altar is three sided. Consequently, we have three candles at each corner of the altar. We used to have beeswax, but they are expensive and tend to go soft in the hot summer. We are now using candles filled with oil (unscented). We also have a tall candle near the baptismal font. also, an oil filled candle
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    I notice from other photos they don't do it all the time. I wonder if it's just during the Sundays after Trinity.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 26
    Lamb Chopped wrote: »
    I notice from other photos they don't do it all the time. I wonder if it's just during the Sundays after Trinity.

    I think you may well be right - a good thought.

    Thanks for the link @Baptist Trainfan - an excellent sermon, well worth listening to, and everyone made a good job of singing the hymns...

    Tangentially, I like the way the altar is at the same level as the chairs in the nave.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I assume a reference to the Trinity when I see three of anything, such as three candles on the altar.


  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    @Forthview St Woolos is Church in Wales - Anglican.

    I'm wondering why there was no choir?
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Holidays?
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Thanks for the heads up,@The Organist. I mentioned RC practice as Anglicans often follow RC practice e.g. celebrant wearing a chasuble,post Vatican2 type of central altar,plus the candles in the style which was shown.
    (But very definitely Anglican in the opening hymn singing.)
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Holidays?

    Yes.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I assume a reference to the Trinity when I see three of anything, such as three candles on the altar.


    That was my thinking.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Unless the incumbent is very high church, likes an array of very tall candles, and celebrates with back to the congregation, the usual practice in England, and as far as I know in Wales also, is two lit candles in candlesticks, one at each end. They are not essential though. Also, to me surprising, is the absence of a "fair white linen cloth". Yes, small cloths were on the altar/holy table during the actual celebration, but that injunction, which is an essential, usually seems to be interpreted as meaning that when the service is a eucharist, the altar/table has spread on it a large white table cloth from before the service starts until after it finishes.

    It is my understanding that the reason for the small cloth - also white - is that only what is actually on it rather than the large white table cloth becomes consecrated. The candles, the celebrant's prayer book, small bottle of anti-bacterial hand-wash, spectacle case etc. etc. do not.

  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    CinW Eucharistic Guidance simply says, "A wide variety of practice is observed, but a basic rule should be elegance. However their altar is dressed, clergy should ensure that they and their congregation are familiar with the reasons why. The fair linen cloth should be clean and ironed. The sanctuary and its environs should be particularly clean and uncluttered as befits a focal point for devotion. The altar should be reserved exclusively for its liturgical purpose". So a fair degree of latitude!
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    The small white cloth which Enoch mentions is called,as far as RC liturgical practice is concerned, the 'corporal'. The bread and wine to be consecrated are placed on that small cloth.
    Usually,but not always you will see the priest unfold the cloth on the altar at the beginning of the eucharist and similarly fold it up again at the end of the communion.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    You will see a small white cloth being unfolded at 44:30 as Communion is being prepared. It is removed as Communion is administered although we can't see exactly when.
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Half wonder if one mighty be a Christian Unity Candle. No idea why on the altar but...
  • Gamma GamalielGamma Gamaliel Shipmate
    Not watched the video yet, but oh the hiraeth!

    I was born in St Woolos's Hospital. No longer exists, I think.

    I've visited the Cathedral but never been to a service there. I remember seeing a performance of Murder In The Cathedral there back in the '70s.

    I've always wondered how Gwynllyw anglicised into Woolos as there's not much sonic similarity other than the 'oo' sound, which comes with the end 'w' rather than the 'wy' bit.

    Linguists may be able to enlighten us.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    Gamma Gamaliel wrote: »
    I was born in St Woolos's Hospital. No longer exists, I think.
    Oh yes, it does. https://tinyurl.com/ycw34253

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 27
    Baptist Trainfan wrote: »
    You will see a small white cloth being unfolded at 44:30 as Communion is being prepared. It is removed as Communion is administered although we can't see exactly when.

    At the risk of being declared a Hell-bound Heretick, there are two possible reasons why St Woolos eschews the large white cloth;

    1. It would spoil the look of this lovely piece (IMHO) of liturgical furniture;
    2. Not having a large white cloth to launder means less work for the Sacristan.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Forthview wrote: »
    The small white cloth which Enoch mentions is called,as far as RC liturgical practice is concerned, the 'corporal'. ...
    I was aware of that. I was trying to avoid revspeak.

  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    Yes. A corporal is relatively large, certainly bigger than a purificator.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    I think the idea of the corporal is that any crumbs are contained on a bit of cloth that can be tipped into the chalice to be consumed - a bit of medieval scrupulosity that has become a "thing."
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    We seem to have strayed away from candles ...

    BTW there were two large candles burning at the east end of the chancel.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Baptist Trainfan wrote: »
    We seem to have strayed away from candles ...

    BTW there were two large candles burning at the east end of the chancel.

    Were those candles on (or near) the large altar/communion table at the east end? As that altar presumably wasn't used, it seems a bit odd to have lit candles on it
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    One on a stand at either side, not on it, right at the east end.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Hmm. Not sure what that stands for, I'm afraid...
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    If you consult the Wikipaedia article on 'altar candles' you may find an answer to the question.
    It used to be quite common in Anglican churches to have two candles,one on either side of the Pavement.
    It was and may still be reasonably common to have smaller candles on top of the curtains (riddels) which were often to be found at the back and side of the altar.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Now I come to think of it, you're probably right. Our Place has two enormous free-standing wooden candlesticks (they must be at least 8 feet tall) on the pavement, one on each side of the 'High Altar' (not normally used).

    They serve no useful purpose, and get in the way. One was knocked over and damaged some years ago, and both were removed whilst the damaged one was repaired. The chancel looked a lot tidier and less cluttered, but alas! the priest insisted on their reinstatement.
  • OblatusOblatus Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    I think the idea of the corporal is that any crumbs are contained on a bit of cloth that can be tipped into the chalice to be consumed - a bit of medieval scrupulosity that has become a "thing."

    And it is opened in a way that makes sure the creases are down so the narrow channels they form can catch crumbs seen and unseen and then stay on the cloth when it is folded up. Due diligence to catch all particles so they can be released into the piscina in the sacristy.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    On the subject of extra candles, Our Place usually has just the two on the nave altar, but all six large candles on the High Altar are lit on special occasions. The two huge but superfluous freestanding candles I mentioned earlier are also lit, which involves using The Holy Stepladder...

    If a Bishop should be present, a seventh candle is added to the Big Six.

    If all this takes place in Eastertide, the Paschal Candle is also lit, of course.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    Do The Faithful have then to wear sunglasses, because of the brilliance of the luminosity?
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Hmm. Not sure what that stands for, I'm afraid...

    Over zealous servers.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Hmm. Not sure what that stands for, I'm afraid...

    Over zealous servers.

    :lol:

  • Stercus TauriStercus Tauri Shipmate
    All very mysterious to a presbyterian, though we do always have the Christ candle lit at the opening of the service. Somewhat liberal as am, even I was shockedandhorrified on the Sunday we had an electronic candle that the minister switched on with a hand-held remote control from the pulpit. It was never seen again after that day.
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