Sionisias mentioned 'privatised public services cost more'. I don't think Wes Streeting believes this and I don't think he really understands the NHS. Or even really believes in the NHS (does anyone, anymore?). So I'll be even more depressed if he ends up PM.
I’d add that privatised public services cost more and deliver less, except in terms of profits to the private sector companies.
People are rightly critical of the NHS, primarily with regard to waiting for almost everything, but the salami slicing economies and plethora of bureaucratic targets in the interest of efficiency, has led to a lack of resources at the sharp end, while extra non-clinical staff are needed to account for every bloody bean to satisfy the demand for management reports.
Because there's a widespread feeling that she could win a leadership contest but not an election.
In itself I don't think that's a good enough reason. None of the candidates look like an election winner.
I wasn't pronouncing on the merits of the idea itself -- merely what is widely reported about sentiments within the PLP. This is partly linked to the strong feeling that Rayner doesn't want to be the leader of the Labour Party (or she could have been by now).
I heard on the BBC this morning that the last PM to last a full term was Tony Blair in 2001.
Has the UK become ungovernable? Have people become blind to the economic etc constraints and pressures that bind governments? Is it just a matter of impatience?
Not True.
Cameron served a full term from 2010-2015.
The more interesting point is can you name the last British Prime Minister who took office upon winning an election and stepped down at PM after losing one?
I heard on the BBC this morning that the last PM to last a full term was Tony Blair in 2001.
Has the UK become ungovernable? Have people become blind to the economic etc constraints and pressures that bind governments? Is it just a matter of impatience?
Not True.
Cameron served a full term from 2010-2015.
The more interesting point is can you name the last British Prime Minister who took office upon winning an election and stepped down at PM after losing one?
I think Starmer 'deserves' to go but can't see the resulting instability doing anyone any good if he did, at least not in the short to medium term.
What about the continued instability and further drift to the right if he stays ?
Well, as @Arethosemyfeet says, seeing that Wes Streeting is currently the only MP who is currently being touted as a possible leadership challenger, there doesn't seem much chance of a leftward lurch.
Everyone sees Burnham as the best option - and with good reason I think - but he's got to get himself a seat first.
Angela Rayner?
She's probably better leadership material but with the best will in the world I can't see the infighting stopping if she were at the helm.
Wes Streeting really would be a disaster, even as a protest against Sir Keir Starmer.
But I think Alan Cresswell had it right. The painful truth, that the UK economy will take ages to fix, would have been better said at the last General Election. For the time being at least, Reform are stronger. They promise a New Jerusalem. It’s all lies, but maybe winning lies?
I don’t see how economic honesty can be restored in UK politics. I hope I’m wrong.
Civil wars are always ugly and Labour's internecine strife has always appeared particularly so.
I see the casualties around here fairly regularly.
Whether it's left, right or centre, Labour could score a spectacular own goal here. All this is playing into Reform's hands at a time when we need some stability. Reform and their ilk thrive on perceived instability.
A Streeting led coup attempt is the last thing Labour needs.
Angela Raynor has been cleared by the HMRC, which would be significant in the event of a Labour leadership contest.
The timing of the announcement that she's been cleared, held back a few days, is very significant. I'm not sure she wants to be the first to challenge, but she's let Streeting know she's there and he knows she would be a serious contender - if he goes for it and seeks his 81 MPs Raynor will almost certainly follow suit, and would find 81 supporters among MPs. A three way Raynor-Starmer-Streeting contest would be very interesting, and may well see Starmer holding on with opposition to him split or see Raynor as new PM (in that scenario I'm hoping that Streeting simply won't have popular support among Labour members).
It seems ludicrous that some in the PLP think anyone would vote for a Streeting-led party.
Well, the country is very divided on Streeting, which is to say that the people who think he looks like a future PM are all inside the PLP.
But this is the end state of the Labour Right's project of taking out candidates they didn't like, using dirty tricks in some cases to crowbar out sitting MPs, and then imposing candidates on CLPs - a process in which Mandelson played a role. The party has been left devoid of alternate ideas and leaders.
Which is how you get this kind of dreck masquerading as an alternative:
Either way, expect a Reform government or a hung-Parliament at the next General Election.
If Streeting wins there'd be massive defections to the Greens.
If Raynor wins the right-wing media would go into overdrive telling everyone the sky will fall in.
If Starmer holds on he'll be 'leading' a weakened party.
Labour has to hold its nerve somehow. But a push-me pull-you internal civil war between its left and right wings isn't going to help anyone but is perhaps inevitable.
Perhaps it's better it happens now than on the eve of the next general election. But it won't be pretty.
Labour has to hold its nerve somehow. But a push-me pull-you internal civil war between its left and right wings isn't going to help anyone but is perhaps inevitable.
Except right now it's an internal spat within Labour's right wing, given that Labour's left has (1) largely been purged or fled and (2) is thoroughly incapable of organising a coup even if it wanted to.
Here goes absolutely nothing, as far as I can see. Our nothing, which art in nothing, nothing be thy name. I just can't see a positive outcome from this, for anyone. The zero sum game of the sport of politics gains zero for anyone.
Labour has to hold its nerve somehow. But a push-me pull-you internal civil war between its left and right wings isn't going to help anyone but is perhaps inevitable.
Except right now it's an internal spat within Labour's right wing, given that Labour's left has (1) largely been purged or fled and (2) is thoroughly incapable of organising a coup even if it wanted to.
Yes, this is true. I'm not sure who the left are supposed to be now.
Pundits on BBC Radio 4's World At One seemed either to be saying that Wes was being really clever and trying to force the issue without 'personalising' it (what, with a personal attack on Starmer's leadership?) or being really silly.
Whatever the case, whether there's or isn't a Labour left anymore a civil war within the Labour Party is in nobody's interests. One could argue that if they are going to have one, they may as well do it now and get it over with so that whoever wins at least has a chance to get things onto an even keel before the next General Election.
Good luck with that.
We could end up with the same chaos the Conservatives created.
We've had enough of 'cleverness' - surely? I don't see how replacing one blue Labour guy in a suit with a slightly younger one is going to make all our problems go away. Unless you really do believe that all our problems could be solved by being beastly to immigrants, trans people and SEN children.
Thinking some more, that's obviously going to be a massive target for a Reform candidate in a by-election. Josh Simons had 5000+ majority in 2024. Labour have to act like it is basically zero..
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
According to the radio just now, Burnham has to stand down as Mayor to stand in a by-election. There seems like a good chance he loses the by-election and Labour lose the mayoral by-election (or whatever it is called)
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
According to the radio just now, Burnham has to stand down as Mayor to stand in a by-election. There seems like a good chance he loses the by-election and Labour lose the mayoral by-election (or whatever it is called)
I think a good move by Starmer would be to suddenly look like a politician with lots of ideas - get HS2 done, approve the northern extension and so on. The longer he sits around the greater chance he will be out.
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
It's not implausible that it's an attempt to set up a trap for Burnham
[tangent] This really pusses me off in terms of reporting. If the Tories were delivering the best growth in the G7 in these circumstances - it would be trumpeted “Conservatives again showing they’re a safe pair of hands” or whatever. When it’s Labour it’s, how incomprehensible, can’t be anything to do with the government.
I certainly wouldn’t vote for Wes Streeting in a leadership contest - my preference would be Angela Raynor.
Wes Streeting is a Tory Wet who somehow finds himself in the Labour party. I'd love there to be a Tory party in which he could find a home, because that would make UK politics very much healthier.
Angela Rayner has a lot of merits, and certainly has the appearance of being honest rather than being a spin merchant.
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
Many anti-Labour voters I know would vote for anyone, even Labour, before voting for Reform. The anti-Reform tactical vote would be significant.
The other question is how much Reform have gained from Labour voters staying at home. When given a chance to make a real difference in government, a lot of "my vote doesn't change anything" voters, plus the Labour voters who don't recognise Starmer as being Labour, could make a big difference (especially if that latter group includes those who gave Reform their vote recently as well as those who didn't vote at all).
It will be a big field, it's going to be a very high profile by-election and all parties will want their time in the spot light regardless of chance of winning. A big question will be how well will the Greens do?
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
You may be underestimating how genuinely popular Burnham is. At his last election he secured a majority of votes in 214 of the 215 electoral wards, losing one in Oldham to an independent candidate. On the same day those same 214 wards elected a variety of councillors from different parties to the various bourghs that make up Greater Manchester. People were clearly willing to vote for Burnham even while they were simultaneously voting Tory/LibDem/Green/Reform etc,,
We now know that a Greater Manchester MP is willing to stand down, but there were credible rumours that MPs in the Liverpool region were considering giving up a seat for Burnham, with a very realistic possibility of him winning. Anyone so associated with Manchester who could win in Liverpool must have both genuine popularity and the ability to unite people.
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
It's not implausible that it's an attempt to set up a trap for Burnham
It would be a dumb trap though because it would damage Labour at least as much as it would damage Burnham.
Sounds like Burnham is going to try to get to the HoC and then to Downing Street - a labour MP has said he is standing aside for him.
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
It's not implausible that it's an attempt to set up a trap for Burnham
It would be a dumb trap though because it would damage Labour at least as much as it would damage Burnham.
Comments
I’d add that privatised public services cost more and deliver less, except in terms of profits to the private sector companies.
People are rightly critical of the NHS, primarily with regard to waiting for almost everything, but the salami slicing economies and plethora of bureaucratic targets in the interest of efficiency, has led to a lack of resources at the sharp end, while extra non-clinical staff are needed to account for every bloody bean to satisfy the demand for management reports.
I wasn't pronouncing on the merits of the idea itself -- merely what is widely reported about sentiments within the PLP. This is partly linked to the strong feeling that Rayner doesn't want to be the leader of the Labour Party (or she could have been by now).
It shouldn’t be so, but for most of the public a slogan beats a detailed explanation every time.
The right are very good at using slogans. The left should learn from them.
I think it'll take Labour a long time to recover from this.
All it does is strengthen the position of those who think everyone else has messed up so why not give Reform a go?
Labour are repeating the Tories' mistakes all over again.
It's a complete mess.
We can analyse how it happened or apportion blame until the cows come home. The question is, how to get out of the hole?
What about the continued instability and further drift to the right if he stays ?
Given that the likely replacement is Streeting I'll take the devil we've got.
Should he even get through, he's a weasel with a sharp eye for survival, and a majority of less than 1%.
Not True.
Cameron served a full term from 2010-2015.
The more interesting point is can you name the last British Prime Minister who took office upon winning an election and stepped down at PM after losing one?
Ted Heath, no?
Well, as @Arethosemyfeet says, seeing that Wes Streeting is currently the only MP who is currently being touted as a possible leadership challenger, there doesn't seem much chance of a leftward lurch.
Everyone sees Burnham as the best option - and with good reason I think - but he's got to get himself a seat first.
Angela Rayner?
She's probably better leadership material but with the best will in the world I can't see the infighting stopping if she were at the helm.
But I think Alan Cresswell had it right. The painful truth, that the UK economy will take ages to fix, would have been better said at the last General Election. For the time being at least, Reform are stronger. They promise a New Jerusalem. It’s all lies, but maybe winning lies?
I don’t see how economic honesty can be restored in UK politics. I hope I’m wrong.
I see the casualties around here fairly regularly.
Whether it's left, right or centre, Labour could score a spectacular own goal here. All this is playing into Reform's hands at a time when we need some stability. Reform and their ilk thrive on perceived instability.
A Streeting led coup attempt is the last thing Labour needs.
Well, the country is very divided on Streeting, which is to say that the people who think he looks like a future PM are all inside the PLP.
But this is the end state of the Labour Right's project of taking out candidates they didn't like, using dirty tricks in some cases to crowbar out sitting MPs, and then imposing candidates on CLPs - a process in which Mandelson played a role. The party has been left devoid of alternate ideas and leaders.
Which is how you get this kind of dreck masquerading as an alternative:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/05/how-labour-can-win-again
(Another case of someone who switched party and was parachuted into a seat in short order, and with no discernible politics).
If Streeting wins there'd be massive defections to the Greens.
If Raynor wins the right-wing media would go into overdrive telling everyone the sky will fall in.
If Starmer holds on he'll be 'leading' a weakened party.
Labour has to hold its nerve somehow. But a push-me pull-you internal civil war between its left and right wings isn't going to help anyone but is perhaps inevitable.
Perhaps it's better it happens now than on the eve of the next general election. But it won't be pretty.
Except right now it's an internal spat within Labour's right wing, given that Labour's left has (1) largely been purged or fled and (2) is thoroughly incapable of organising a coup even if it wanted to.
I hope somebody else throws their hat in the ring as both of them are about as popular as an expiring rat in a cruise ship trifle.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/14/wes-streeting-quits-cabinet-and-calls-on-starmer-to-resign
If Starmer was clever (and assuming he's not going to resign) he'd get Rayner in as health secretary.
Yes, this is true. I'm not sure who the left are supposed to be now.
Whatever the case, whether there's or isn't a Labour left anymore a civil war within the Labour Party is in nobody's interests. One could argue that if they are going to have one, they may as well do it now and get it over with so that whoever wins at least has a chance to get things onto an even keel before the next General Election.
Good luck with that.
We could end up with the same chaos the Conservatives created.
Absolutely
But politics as Reality Television seems to be the order of the day.
Where America goes, we follow. 😥
Cat meet pigeons.
This requires the electorate to play along. They way it's going at the moment the voters might just send another Reform MP to the HoC purely out of spite.
2024 GE results:
Josh Simons
Labour
18,202 45.2%
Robert Kenyon
Reform UK
12,803 31.8%
Simon Finkelstein
Conservative
4,379 10.9%
John Skipworth
Liberal Democrat
2,735
My gut says that many folk (outside of dyed in the wool Reform headbangers) will look at the options and decide what they're really doing is choosing between Burnham and Streeting as PM and conclude that the former is the better option, even if that's only because they'd rather have a Mancunian than yet another southerner.
I think that is completely possible.
I suspect what he will actually do is quit, leave parliament and retire somewhere.
My gut says that if Labour could only get a 5400 majority in 2024 they would be ill-advised to assume they will get any sort of majority right now. Anti-Labour voters will be very highly motivated to turn out and vote Reform. Pro-Labour voters will have distinctly moderate motivation to turn out. This is a bad idea.
Or go and work for Tony Blair's autocrat advisory firm, whatever it's called.
As for Reform and Green appeal, no can complain she grew up as part of an elite, or had it easy or doesn’t understand the struggles of working people.
It's not implausible that it's an attempt to set up a trap for Burnham
This really pusses me off in terms of reporting. If the Tories were delivering the best growth in the G7 in these circumstances - it would be trumpeted “Conservatives again showing they’re a safe pair of hands” or whatever. When it’s Labour it’s, how incomprehensible, can’t be anything to do with the government.
Likewise, with waiting lists.
We need much better PR.
[/tangent]
Wes Streeting is a Tory Wet who somehow finds himself in the Labour party. I'd love there to be a Tory party in which he could find a home, because that would make UK politics very much healthier.
Angela Rayner has a lot of merits, and certainly has the appearance of being honest rather than being a spin merchant.
The other question is how much Reform have gained from Labour voters staying at home. When given a chance to make a real difference in government, a lot of "my vote doesn't change anything" voters, plus the Labour voters who don't recognise Starmer as being Labour, could make a big difference (especially if that latter group includes those who gave Reform their vote recently as well as those who didn't vote at all).
It will be a big field, it's going to be a very high profile by-election and all parties will want their time in the spot light regardless of chance of winning. A big question will be how well will the Greens do?
You may be underestimating how genuinely popular Burnham is. At his last election he secured a majority of votes in 214 of the 215 electoral wards, losing one in Oldham to an independent candidate. On the same day those same 214 wards elected a variety of councillors from different parties to the various bourghs that make up Greater Manchester. People were clearly willing to vote for Burnham even while they were simultaneously voting Tory/LibDem/Green/Reform etc,,
We now know that a Greater Manchester MP is willing to stand down, but there were credible rumours that MPs in the Liverpool region were considering giving up a seat for Burnham, with a very realistic possibility of him winning. Anyone so associated with Manchester who could win in Liverpool must have both genuine popularity and the ability to unite people.
It would be a dumb trap though because it would damage Labour at least as much as it would damage Burnham.
Labour First are used to playing on easy mode, and are somewhat unused to things blowing up in their face https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/feb/23/josh-simons-minister-alleged-smear-campaign-unanswered-questions
In other news, McSweeney is apparently long-screwdriving things:
https://bsky.app/profile/noahkeate.bsky.social/post/3mlsqcqabes2f
You may be right. I guess we will probably find out fairly soon!