MS Gov. Tate Reeves wants you to enjoy Confederate Heritage Month

The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
People from here (in MS) like to say how far things have come, and what a great place it is today, however, this is the pervasive reality of this state, and it's not going anywhere any time soon. The new state flag did away with the confederate battle emblem from the previous one a half dozen years ago, but that was an outward gesture, bitterly fought as it was. But the whole 'heritage' idea, the last remnant of the Lost Cause is inward, and in all likelihood, permanent. If you ever happen to have plans to even pass through Mississippi... change them.

Comments

  • I though people only ever 'flew over' it.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Coastal MS was once referred to as 'the land mass between New Orleans and Alabama.' That's about as generous as anyone can be, really.

    But the cruelty that allows a governor to blithely declare a avowedly racist history spanning only four calendar years as state-sanctioned 'heritage' is an absolute disgrace and an affront to humanity.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Well, bless Tate Reeves’ heart.

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    From this distance across the Atlantic, he looks like a (narrowly elected) GOP racist. Apparently he’s been doing this for a few years.
  • If we are to celebrate Confederate heritage, can we celebrate its surrender and downfall then? :wink:
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    The practice goes back to 1993, and has included one single-term Democrat (Governor).
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    IIRC Southern Democrats were basically racists from the mid 19th century until the Dixiecrat split in 1948. So I guess it’s not surprising that one single-term Democratic governor supported the celebration of Confederate heritage.

    Times have changed. But in Mississippi, perhaps not so much?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    From this distance across the Atlantic, he looks like a (narrowly elected) GOP racist.
    From across the Atlantic, it may be difficult to see just how tenaciously some in the South cling to Lost Cause Mythology.

    It definitely isn’t as pervasive as it was four or five decades ago, at least where I am, but it’s still there. And I think many who would claim to disown it really don’t recognize the degree to which some aspects of Lost Cause Mythology are subtly interwoven into larger social patterns and assumptions.

    As a culture, we’ve done a pretty terrible job of dealing honestly and constructively with our history.


  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    Tom Lehrer, "I Wanna Go Back To Dixie":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwhC_btAUU
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Tom Lehrer, "I Wanna Go Back To Dixie":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwhC_btAUU

    😂😂

    I love Tom.Lehrer songs! How did I miss that?
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    The TomLehrer song is an old family favourite ( LP in family since 1957).

    However this Antipodean is astonished that no poster has mentioned that ghastly TV series “ The Dukes of Hazzard” with the “ General Lee” ( Valiant Charger known in Oz at that time as the Wog Chariot). I did not ( and still don’t) have a telly at that time and cannot imagine how ( early 80s in Oz) how that crappy show got past the censors.

    Sheer ignorance, I guess
  • BullfrogBullfrog Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    IIRC Southern Democrats were basically racists from the mid 19th century until the Dixiecrat split in 1948. So I guess it’s not surprising that one single-term Democratic governor supported the celebration of Confederate heritage.

    Times have changed. But in Mississippi, perhaps not so much?

    There's also a thing where if you're a liberal in a conservative state, there's a measure of lip service you have to pay to certain deplorable ideas in order to win just enough votes to stay in office and hopefully get some good things done.

    It's horribly awkward, but it's a game I think gets played in more than a few places in America. I think with social media, it's getting harder to play it now.
  • BullfrogBullfrog Shipmate
    Sojourner wrote: »
    The TomLehrer song is an old family favourite ( LP in family since 1957).

    However this Antipodean is astonished that no poster has mentioned that ghastly TV series “ The Dukes of Hazzard” with the “ General Lee” ( Valiant Charger known in Oz at that time as the Wog Chariot). I did not ( and still don’t) have a telly at that time and cannot imagine how ( early 80s in Oz) how that crappy show got past the censors.

    Sheer ignorance, I guess

    I went to high school with folks who didn't understand how the show was offensive. Honestly, if you'd asked me when I was in high school, I might've also double-taked. No joke. It was just a TV show and there wasn't anything overtly racist about it besides some old southern iconography.

    Americans are rather odd in the things they choose to censure and how.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited April 25
    It was the Confederate flag on General Lee that raised ire.

    Personally I enjoyed seeing Boss Hogg get his ass kicked, the leaping into General Lee and of course Daisy Dukes.

    It was very popular in the US and the UK, basically because it was funny. Did it, inadvertently, big up the Deep South? Well, it was a long time ago, but it didn’t affect me that way. I think it was possible to laugh a lot, but still maintain a strong anti-racist view.

    YMMV
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    Watching the Dukes of Hazard as a non-American teenager, I was completely oblivious to the historical and political overtones. It was all about did you prefer Bo or Luke and would you dare wear such short shorts!
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    I note that the first names of the main antagonist were Jefferson Davis. That makes it more complicated, though not necessarily better. (The reading of history as a virtuous general let down by corrupt politicians is a concept that has been put to malign use.)
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Jefferson Davis “Boss” Hogg never won! The Dukes always kicked his ass!
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Mr F's retirement party from a career in earth sciences was themed around 'The Dukes of Seismic Hazard'.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I had not picked up that there was anything controversial about the Dukes of Hazzard. It used to be on about Saturday teatime when my children were small,. It was certainly regarded as comedy. I rather enjoyed it. It used to amaze me what extraordinary things they managed to get the car to do without smashing it and themselves to pieces.

    Also, of course, Daisy had very memorable legs.

    It was a lot better than the A-Team which was also around that sort of time and which I have always felt was morally deeply pernicious.

    There was another series about the same time, which featured a man with a talking car.

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    It was the Confederate flag on General Lee that raised ire.
    That was just one of quite a few problematic things in it. Remember the car horn that played “Dixie”?

    I never liked the show. I didn’t find it funny at all, and I thought it relied heavily on tired stereotypes of Southerners.

    But I think it would be a mistake to view like or dislike of the show by white American viewers, and particularly white Southern American viewers, through a more contemporary lens. That’s simply not where most white Americans and most white Southern Americans were in the late 70s and early 80s.


  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I remember being briefly disappointed that The Dukes of Hazzard was not about 18th century upper class card sharps (with perhaps a bit of duelling thrown in).

    The series about a man with a talking car was Knight Rider, and the car was called KITT.
  • Eigon wrote: »
    The series about a man with a talking car was Knight Rider, and the car was called KITT.
    Ah yes, when David Hasselhof was acted off the screen by a talking car!

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    For your information, Daisy Duke, Catherine Bach(man) that is, is still alive at 72.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I confess that I was well into adulthood before I learnt that the flag on the General Lee was offensive, and why.

    It just wasn't a part of history that we'd been taught.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    For your information, Daisy Duke, Catherine Bach(man) that is, is still alive at 72.

    You say 'still alive' as if it were an exceptional achievement... I may say that I hurtled past that milepost some time ago.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    @Nick Tamen

    Happy to acknowledge that UK sensitivities were not so sharp re Deep South stereotypes. And I haven’t watched it for years.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    @Nick Tamen

    Happy to acknowledge that UK sensitivities were not so sharp re Deep South stereotypes. And I haven’t watched it for years.

    Go on, you've got a box set somewhere :)
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited April 26
    Haven’t. Haven’t! Haven’t!!!

    Mind you …….

    (Actually I’ve got two box sets. Cadfael and Pride and Prejudice -BBC series with Jennifer Ehle and Colin Firth. And no working DVD player)
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    I read the Cadfael books but I haven't seen any of the DvDs.

    In the 2011 quake my bookshelf took out the Tv in a triumph of culture over crass commercialism.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Tangent warning

    Cadfael was a present from friends. It’s pretty good. But Pride and Prejudice (BBC series) is still wonderful 30 years on.
  • Huia wrote: »
    I read the Cadfael books but I haven't seen any of the DvDs.

    In the 2011 quake my bookshelf took out the Tv in a triumph of culture over crass commercialism.

    :-) I like that a lot. My Irish friend who lives in Christchurch told me he was walking down the middle of the road dodging flying bricks in that quake and 'dancing like Michael Flatley' :-)

    (I had a similar experience in my 20s in a shared house, where one of the guys was a bit of a nazi about people's stuff being left 'all over the place'. He once packed all my shopping (neatly all together on a counter top, because my tiny cupboard was full, or so I thought) into said tiny cupboard, which fell off the wall in the middle of the night and landed on top of his (emphasis intended) microwave).
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    There is a fantastic exhibition at the Geffen Contemporary in Los Angeles called Monuments that is about Confederate monuments and Lost Cause mythology. It has several Confederate monuments that were removed from their original installations, some of them still with the paint thrown on them in protest, and it has a bunch of pieces that respond to and comment on Confederate monuments. One is called "A Suspension of Hostilities" -- it's a 1969 Dodge charger painted like the General Lee, standing vertically on its front bumper in a sandbox (see pictures of all the art here). The most powerful piece (IMO) is in an art gallery some miles away -- "Unmanned Drone" was made by Kara Walker from the statue of Stonewall Jackson that was taken down in Charlottesville, VA.

    @Nick Tamen and @The_Riv, if you haven't seen these, I think you'd be interested. I found it all stunning when I saw it in person; the photos don't give you the sense of scale -- some of these things are more than twice life size -- but they're pretty good. In addition to "Unmanned Drone," the photos of Black women with their sons in the Pietà pose (same as the pose in one of the Confederate monuments) were very moving to me. There's only one shown on the website, but it's a whole series called "Stranger Fruit."
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Thanks, @Ruth. I’ll definitely take a look.

  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    Thank you, @Ruth -- I will, too! Appreciate you sharing that.

    Here is a retrospective treatment of The Dukes of Hazzard from a decade or so ago.
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