In which case you would be doing more than those of us who believe that we have already 'accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour' and, Rapture or no Rapture, aren't doing a great deal to persuade others to do the same.
Well, @HarryCH's scenario seems predicated on the standard pre-mil eschatology being provably true, meaning anyone unsaved at the time of the Rapture will undergo the horrors of the Tribulation, with the best case scenario being that they know enough to reject the mark of the beast and attain salvation only after being executed by a portable guillotine squad, and the worst being they suffer seven years of horrific torment on Earth followed by an eternity in Hell. And they have less than 48 hrs. to change course.
Is that how you view the fate of the people you know who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour by your understanding of the concept?
I was responding to your response to @HarryCH, @stetson which I took to be tongue in cheek and to which I made an equally tongue in cheek response.
The serious point I was making, though, was that whether or not we believe in the pre-millenialist schema - and I certainly don't - it behoves all of us who claim to have 'accepted Christ as our Lord and Saviour' - in whatever parlance we frame that - to bear witness to Him.
I don't do that particularly effectively.
I don't see how my reply indicates any sympathy though for a lurid pre-millenial eschatological schema.
I was not trying to make any theological point. Rather, if you are an honest person and you happen to learn that tomorrow you will die or the Rapture will occur or the world will come to an end, what would you do differently from your ordinary life?
Too right. Virtually everywhere on earth has gone keg now and you're hoping against hope that the Celestial Pub Industry hasn't followed suit. They'd get loads of complaints from complete philistines about the beer not being cold and fizzy enough.
I was not trying to make any theological point. Rather, if you are an honest person and you happen to learn that tomorrow you will die or the Rapture will occur or the world will come to an end, what would you do differently from your ordinary life?
Well, okay, but my personal demise, and the Rapture, and a non-specified "end of the world", are three pretty different concepts. Moreso than the other two, the Rapture implies belief in a very specific eschatology, which is gonna correlate with certain actions on the part of the believer, that eg. an atheist hearing from his doctor that his heart will give out tomorrow, will not.
If you're asking how I would behave if I found out my existence as I've previously known it was going to end tomorrow, and assuming my religious beliefs remain the same as they are now(deistic belief in a God who wills certain moral precepts), I suppose I'd follow the lead of the tree-planting rabbi. Though I might add "Urgently inform my friends and family about my impending departure from their lives" to my itinerary.
I think I'll still turn up for my flu jab on October 4th, just in case...
If I remember rightly there's an episode in John Wesley's Journal where he comes across an excitable group who were gathering in expectation of the imminent return of Christ.
If my memory isn't playing tricks he laconically observed that he consulted his diary and carried on with his schedule as planned.
I may, of course, have got the story mixed up.
This reminds me of a similar story about the founder of the Jesuits, Ignatius Loyola. He was playing billiards and when asked what he would do i9f he heard that Christ would return the next day, replied "Continue to play billiards."
There's a nice Secret Diary of Adrian Plass bit where a preacher says "imagine how guilty and unworthy you would feel if Jesus came back and was sitting in that chair right there". He writes "I did try really really hard to feel guilty but kept getting distracted by thinking about how exciting it would be to meet Jesus..."
Would the rapture still “work” if you were a Christian but not familiar with the concept? That would come as a bit of a shock…
I think I would hastily make arrangements for my closest non-Christian friends and family to have all my worldly goods. Though that would mean working out exactly how strict Jesus was going to be on who was taken and who wasn’t.
It’s over 40 years since I’ve given any consideration to any of this. I can’t say I miss it!
Would the rapture still “work” if you were a Christian but not familiar with the concept? That would come as a bit of a shock…
I guess it would be like a devout Roman Catholic who somehow managed to avoid hearing about Purgatory, then upon dying finding out that that's where he's going for a short while.
Might not be too much of a shock, and even a pleasant surprise, if he had for some reason been expecting Hell. The Rapture-ignorant Rapturee would probably just be happy to find himself in the presence of God, and then delighted to hear what's he managed to avoid back on Earth.
The Jack Chick comic-book Chaos states that during the Tribulation, "experts in the occult" will try to explain the Rapture as the work of "flying saucers". I once had a whimsical debate with a friend about whether, in the event of being left behind after the Rapture, we would be willing to entertain such explanations put forth by UFO cults, or rather think that the Rapture itself would make the truth of the pre-mil eschatology self-evident.
My friend was of the opinion that since it had been Christians who were predicting such an event for decades, we could assume that their explanation of the reason behind it was the correct one, and I think I agreed with him.
In the last coupla decades of his ministry, Jack Van Impe promoted an eschatology that fused darbyism, Fatima, and the prophecies of Nostradamus. Theological heterodoxy aside(*), it was definitely a clever ploy to start moving into the Catholic and astrology markets.
(*) At the same time as this, he was denouncing the Jesus Seminar for making false statements about the bible.
I had a friend today who pointed out if the Rapture were true the death of Jesus would be unnecessary because God would have been able to vacuum up all the good people in the blink of an eye.
I had a friend today who pointed out if the Rapture were true the death of Jesus would be unnecessary because God would have been able to vacuum up all the good people in the blink of an eye.
Something to consider.
But I think most believers in the Rapture define "good people" as those who have accepted Christ's sacrifice on the cross as atonement for their sins.
Probably time to mention that when I was a student one of my housemates cut out a human figure, painted it to look like wood and stuck it on the underside of the ceiling above the sofa on which we would habitually lie. It was labelled "Rapture Escape Hatch". The placement of the bolt, given the man's Viz-like mind, was almost certainly intentional.
In other news, Flat Earthers are presumably going to be thwarted by getting stuck on the underside of the firmament...
I keep getting worried about the rapture. The sacristan at St Obscures disappears frequently for about half an hour. We are just starting to wonder if we need to look into hay supplies* for the four horses of the apocalypse, and he will walk back into the Sacristy with a reasonable excuse.
Thanks. Yes, I was aware of some of their history but not that they had a kind of 'national' church in Washington DC or that Johnson and Reagan came from that background.
The three people I met struck me as very much 'mainline Protestant' in tone, as it were.
In UK terms I think they'd have fitted in well with the URC.
The URCs is part US Restorationist as The Churches of Christ joined in 1981 see What is the URC? -webpage
Too right. Virtually everywhere on earth has gone keg now and you're hoping against hope that the Celestial Pub Industry hasn't followed suit. They'd get loads of complaints from complete philistines about the beer not being cold and fizzy enough.
Mercifully, there are still places which have not bowed the knee to Baal.
Comments
I was responding to your response to @HarryCH, @stetson which I took to be tongue in cheek and to which I made an equally tongue in cheek response.
The serious point I was making, though, was that whether or not we believe in the pre-millenialist schema - and I certainly don't - it behoves all of us who claim to have 'accepted Christ as our Lord and Saviour' - in whatever parlance we frame that - to bear witness to Him.
I don't do that particularly effectively.
I don't see how my reply indicates any sympathy though for a lurid pre-millenial eschatological schema.
I like Gramps49's answer.
The JWs knocked on my door this morning. I was very polite.
If I knew the would end tomorrow I'd ask forgiveness of all those I have offended and repent in sackcloth and ashes.
I might also seek out a decent pint of hand-pulled cask ale before shut-tap.
I'd plant the tree -- while looking forward to a feast of the finest of wines and best of meats.
Too right. Virtually everywhere on earth has gone keg now and you're hoping against hope that the Celestial Pub Industry hasn't followed suit. They'd get loads of complaints from complete philistines about the beer not being cold and fizzy enough.
Well, okay, but my personal demise, and the Rapture, and a non-specified "end of the world", are three pretty different concepts. Moreso than the other two, the Rapture implies belief in a very specific eschatology, which is gonna correlate with certain actions on the part of the believer, that eg. an atheist hearing from his doctor that his heart will give out tomorrow, will not.
If you're asking how I would behave if I found out my existence as I've previously known it was going to end tomorrow, and assuming my religious beliefs remain the same as they are now(deistic belief in a God who wills certain moral precepts), I suppose I'd follow the lead of the tree-planting rabbi. Though I might add "Urgently inform my friends and family about my impending departure from their lives" to my itinerary.
This reminds me of a similar story about the founder of the Jesuits, Ignatius Loyola. He was playing billiards and when asked what he would do i9f he heard that Christ would return the next day, replied "Continue to play billiards."
I think I would hastily make arrangements for my closest non-Christian friends and family to have all my worldly goods. Though that would mean working out exactly how strict Jesus was going to be on who was taken and who wasn’t.
It’s over 40 years since I’ve given any consideration to any of this. I can’t say I miss it!
I guess it would be like a devout Roman Catholic who somehow managed to avoid hearing about Purgatory, then upon dying finding out that that's where he's going for a short while.
Might not be too much of a shock, and even a pleasant surprise, if he had for some reason been expecting Hell. The Rapture-ignorant Rapturee would probably just be happy to find himself in the presence of God, and then delighted to hear what's he managed to avoid back on Earth.
The Jack Chick comic-book Chaos states that during the Tribulation, "experts in the occult" will try to explain the Rapture as the work of "flying saucers". I once had a whimsical debate with a friend about whether, in the event of being left behind after the Rapture, we would be willing to entertain such explanations put forth by UFO cults, or rather think that the Rapture itself would make the truth of the pre-mil eschatology self-evident.
My friend was of the opinion that since it had been Christians who were predicting such an event for decades, we could assume that their explanation of the reason behind it was the correct one, and I think I agreed with him.
(*) At the same time as this, he was denouncing the Jesus Seminar for making false statements about the bible.
Something to consider.
But I think most believers in the Rapture define "good people" as those who have accepted Christ's sacrifice on the cross as atonement for their sins.
In other news, Flat Earthers are presumably going to be thwarted by getting stuck on the underside of the firmament...
The URCs is part US Restorationist as The Churches of Christ joined in 1981 see What is the URC? -webpage
Mercifully, there are still places which have not bowed the knee to Baal.