The amount of time I spent in church staff meetings while we talked about the coffee ... so much of my life I'll never get back! And the last minister I worked for was an interim who thought the local tap water tasted bad, so we also had endless conversations about that. She swore up and down providing good drinking water was vital to getting someone good to agree to be the permanent minister.
That's serious - I know. We grow our own water at home, but at the church in town the chlorine in the water on a bad day can turn a pot of coffee into a witch's brew. The only cure for that is to fill the pot the night before and let the chlorine disperse.
Surely Holy Water blessed by activated charcoal filters is the way of the Lord?
I would have thought boiling would deal with dissolved gasses but maybe I'm mistaken.
It does. How quickly is a valid question though. A quick trawl of t'interwebs suggests 15-20 minutes would be required.
However, some tap water is treated with chloramine which is a liquid so can't be driven off simply by boiling. It can however be removed by treating water with sodium thiosulphate (as for that matter can chlorine). However this reaction liberates ammonia which has its own problems. On the other hand, chloramine isn't as smelly as chlorine in the first place.
"Two medium dark roast coffees, both with one cream, please", I requested the other day. Instant confusion across the counter. What did I do wrong? I ended up ordering them individually, which was fine, and the young fellow told me to have a nice day as well.
One nice thing I appreciated about the coffee shop we'd frequent when we lived in Ohio was that you could hang your own mug on the wall and reuse it whenever you returned. The folks there would just run it through the dishwasher and re-hang it, and you'd just grab it down and hand it to them when you arrived. Obviously this was for sitting down and enjoying yourself for a bit. Was really nice. I really don't like paper, or worse, styrofoam cups.
To some extent, I think businesses like coffee shops are reflections of the larger economy, and what you're seeing here is what's happening to you everywhere else. Corners get cut, profit over service, and monopolies who know you don't have a choice about where to shop so they'll just abuse you because it's cheaper that way.
One nice thing I appreciated about the coffee shop we'd frequent when we lived in Ohio was that you could hang your own mug on the wall and reuse it whenever you returned. The folks there would just run it through the dishwasher and re-hang it, and you'd just grab it down and hand it to them when you arrived. Obviously this was for sitting down and enjoying yourself for a bit. Was really nice. I really don't like paper, or worse, styrofoam cups.
This probably happens over here but shouldn’t. Yes it is a nice thing to do, I have seen on TV that something similar can happen for beer tankards over there. No company should wash a mug that is not owned by the company over here. That extends to ones kept at shop for specific customers. This for hygiene reasons. I know it does happen in a couple of places over here. It is more good practice than an actual law. You are mainly expected to use the cup provided or if you have a travel mug wash it yourself.
But if they then hang it back on a wall where anyone can see/touch it….
It's not uncommon to have a stack of cups next to a self-service coffee machine some distance from the till in cafés. It wouldn't occur to me to consider that a hygiene risk.
Not just cups. I was staying in a hotel last week, came down for breakfast and helped myself to a glass from a tray for some orange juice, a bowl for cereal, a plate for toast, mug for coffee ... then went back for a spoon which I'd forgotten to eat my cereal.
It is hard to see what the hygiene risk might be of the company washing a mug owned by the customer rather than a mug of its own.
If that mug has been outside the environment of the shop it could have been put down anywhere. The water in the dish washer doesn’t empty every time. It goes around the machine until the water is changed by the operator. As I said it is best practice rather than illegal.
The water in the dish washer doesn’t empty every time. It goes around the machine until the water is changed by the operator.
Wouldn’t that create a potential hygiene risk for all dishes, not just mugs owned by a customer?
What I’ve seen here (US, specifically Southern US), is that you can buy a mug from the coffee shop, which they’ll put your name on and keep for you. They may have various styles to choose from. You can’t take it out of the coffee shop. It’s essentially their mug, but you’re the only one who uses it.
The water in the dish washer doesn’t empty every time. It goes around the machine until the water is changed by the operator.
Wouldn’t that create a potential hygiene risk for all dishes, not just mugs owned by a customer?
What I’ve seen here (US, specifically Southern US), is that you can buy a mug from the coffee shop, which they’ll put your name on and keep for you. They may have various styles to choose from. You can’t take it out of the coffee shop. It’s essentially their mug, but you’re the only one who uses it.
That is fine.
Yes it would be a problem for all dishes. That is why when using a professional dish washer you have to remove the dirt first. The dish washer essentially sanitises the cups.
That is fine.
Yes it would be a problem for all dishes. That is why when using a professional dish washer you have to remove the dirt first. The dish washer essentially sanitises the cups.
I used to work in an institutional kitchen. Couldn't stand to see a dirty dish pit. Even though it wasn't my job as a server I would clean the entire pit and the washer before every shift because you can't get dishes clean in a dirty dish pit.
It used to drive me bananas when other servers wouldn't actually wash the glasses using the tub with soapy water and the glass brush, but would load them with lipstick stains and all into the sanitizer. As if that made a difference.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting the coffee shop could double as a surgical suite. And with all due respect to best practices, it's never been a priority over here in the US to make those any kind of legal benchmark. Quite often the opposite is true, because cost/profit rules all. Any "buffet" style restaurant here are going to have the same issues of overhanded dishware and silverware.
I've seen coffee shops where a pegboard of customers' mugs is behind the counter on the back wall. By association, thoughtful Baristas get to know which regular customers use which mugs, and they touch few hands.
Not just cups. I was staying in a hotel last week, came down for breakfast and helped myself to a glass from a tray for some orange juice, a bowl for cereal, a plate for toast, mug for coffee ... then went back for a spoon which I'd forgotten to eat my cereal.
I hope your cereal wasn't soggy by the time you had fetched the spoon. Perhaps that's a different hell topic.
Just been in Starbucks. As usual no one clears the tables. Customers move them tho empty tables where they pile up. Why? One thing customers say they want all the time is clean tables.
Likely that particular location has low morale or is understaffed, or both. They've been a pretty jerk employer lately, so I can't imagine it's been good for their relationship with staff.
Don't know about the UK, but there have been a bunch of news articles over the last year or so about the US Starbucks outlets being massively understaffed. Plus they promoted ordering on the app and picking up coffee to go to such an extent that the in-shop experience for people ordering on-site and wanting to feel like a human being drinking coffee for 20-30 minutes got crushed. Wait times for those folks skyrocketed while the staff made the to-go orders from the app. Not the local workers' fault.
I very rarely drink at Starbucks, motorway services being about the only time I'd use them, but my experience has mostly been that their coffee shops are self clearing - ie: it's expected that customers take their cups etc to a reception point, sorting disposable items (ie: everything as they've basically given up on proper cups) into appropriate bins for recycling.
If you're looking for a coffee (tea, or other drink) served in proper cups with staff around to serve you and clear up then go somewhere else. When I do occasionally get a coffee out in town here, I use a wee shop where I place my order and take a seat and someone brings my coffee (in a proper cup) over when it's ready and clears up after I leave. I get better service, better coffee, and pay less than Starbucks.
I'm fortunate to have four independent coffee shops within a 10-minute walk. One of them roasts their own beans on-site, has the best prices for coffee drinks, and sells loose-leaf tea, so they're my main source of caffeination.
Our local café doesn't play music, so it's a rare place where you can hold a conversation. And they know the regulars by name. Other places can get aggressive if you ask them to turn the music down. The music is often for the staff, not the patrons.
I very rarely drink at Starbucks, motorway services being about the only time I'd use them, but my experience has mostly been that their coffee shops are self clearing - ie: it's expected that customers take their cups etc to a reception point, sorting disposable items (ie: everything as they've basically given up on proper cups) into appropriate bins for recycling.
If you're looking for a coffee (tea, or other drink) served in proper cups with staff around to serve you and clear up then go somewhere else. When I do occasionally get a coffee out in town here, I use a wee shop where I place my order and take a seat and someone brings my coffee (in a proper cup) over when it's ready and clears up after I leave. I get better service, better coffee, and pay less than Starbucks.
None of the ones in the UK I have been to have a place to sort you dirty crockery. Cups have to be left on the tables. Yes they appear to be short on staff but they should have a person clearing. That would encourage people to come in.
Within the motorway service station they have a monopoly so don't need to do anything to encourage people to come in. I suppose a customer who didn't like it could get back in their car and drive to the next service station but I wouldn't do that. Besides, Mrs Rogue often moans that I never see untidiness in the house so why would anywhere else be any different?
When I do finish my coffee in these places if there isn't a place for dirty cups I take it back to the serving counter. They always say thank you.
I very rarely drink at Starbucks, motorway services being about the only time I'd use them, but my experience has mostly been that their coffee shops are self clearing - ie: it's expected that customers take their cups etc to a reception point, sorting disposable items (ie: everything as they've basically given up on proper cups) into appropriate bins for recycling.
If you're looking for a coffee (tea, or other drink) served in proper cups with staff around to serve you and clear up then go somewhere else. When I do occasionally get a coffee out in town here, I use a wee shop where I place my order and take a seat and someone brings my coffee (in a proper cup) over when it's ready and clears up after I leave. I get better service, better coffee, and pay less than Starbucks.
It's years since I drank at Starbucks; they have basically left Australia. They entered the Aussie market in (I think ) the 1990s, and most shops closed soon afterwards. No-one would drink their coffee! There are a few in tourist spots - there's one at Sydney Airport and I saw another on the Gold Coast, but Aussies like their local coffee shop, where proper coffee comes in proper cups and is brought to the table. This is true even of the local chains like Coffee Club.
On the rare times I have been in a Starbucks they have been disgusting. Manky machines being wiped by dirty cloths, uncleared, wet and soiled tables, and bits of food on the floor. I don't live like that at home, so why should I tolerate it whe I am paying for the privilege?
Starbucks aren't alone, Costa and Nero are no better.
And the prices!!!!!!
It seems to me that many of these chains seem to function with two employees. As making the coffee takes some time, this means that there's no-one free to clear tables unless business is pretty slack. But often they don't seem to do it even then! I hate going into a cafe where the tables have not been cleared.
We have a local chain called Coffi Lab - the Lab in question being Labrador rather than Laboratory as I'd assumed! The coffee is excellent. They are expanding so I hope the quality doesn't deteriorate as it has IMO for Coffee #1.
I never use Starbucks as I think their coffee is awful. Costa and Nero are better.
I don't think I've ever been into a Starbucks; we have a Costa here and the coffee is ok and the floors and tables are kept reasonably clean. It all seems to run much better and more smoothly when the manager isn't on site...
We have a Coffee One here as well - nice ambiance and delicious cakes but service is slow due to low staff numbers and uncleared tables and an unswept floor are often a problem. I go there often as it's our biggest coffee emporium and they don't seem to mind how long you sit there with a laptop or book. They also have a table and sitting area near the door designated for people with "well-behaved dogs" but over time this has unofficially transmogrified into "dogs allowed at any table" and some people's definition of "well-behaved" differs from mine.
We have one excellent independently run coffee shop/café here - everything is spotlessly clean, service is quick, food delicious, prices reasonable. They open early to catch the breakfast trade, close at 2pm every day and are closed at the weekend; I presume this is how they manage costs. I'm going there today for lunch.
It seems to me that many of these chains seem to function with two employees. As making the coffee takes some time, this means that there's no-one free to clear tables unless business is pretty slack. But often they don't seem to do it even then! I hate going into a cafe where the tables have not been cleared.
We have a local chain called Coffi Lab - the Lab in question being Labrador rather than Laboratory as I'd assumed! The coffee is excellent. They are expanding so I hope the quality doesn't deteriorate as it has IMO for Coffee #1.
I never use Starbucks as I think their coffee is awful. Costa and Nero are better.
Starbucks coffee is like battery acid.
I find that garden centre cafes are generally much nicer places to have a coffee and their cakes are usually excellent.
I'm generally not out in town long enough to need a coffee. However if I'm out for the day on my motorbike ...... I'm fond of a well run "greasy spoon." There are times when a big mug of filter coffee and a bacon and egg bap just hit the spot.
Friends of mine used to go to the local garden centre cafe partly for the plants, but mostly because it was the only place they could practically guarentee they'd be the youngest people there!
Friends of mine used to go to the local garden centre cafe partly for the plants, but mostly because it was the only place they could practically guarentee they'd be the youngest people there!
Friends of mine used to go to the local garden centre cafe partly for the plants, but mostly because it was the only place they could practically guarentee they'd be the youngest people there!
A bit like church?
Hospital is similar. 57 in a couple of weeks and when I was stuck in there for a week I was a good 20 years younger than every other patient.
In all of Australia and New Zealand, there are no more than half a dozen, if that many, Starbucks. They cater to visitors from t'other side of the Pacific. Here in Paradiseville, pop 200,000, nary a Starbucks to be seen. But there is a good independent coffee shop or van every couple of hundred metres on average, serving coffee that has most likely been roasted locally too.
On the basis of a month wandering in Oz between Newcastle and Melbourne, I think it safe to say that the natives do not know how to make bad coffee. My locals were Illi Hill and Two Chaps in Marrickville, and Ground Floor on Hunter St in Newcastle, but there are likely even better that I did not discover. My standard long black /americano (now known in the Great White North as a canadiano) was uniformly rich, not bitter, and the espresso I had in Greek and Arab neighbourhoods was substantial and not aggressive. Espresso machines could be found in gas stations.
Generally I seek out independents over chains and luckily we now live in an era, however benighted, where independents seem to flourish, with coffee names devised by graduate students or political exiles. Often the baking is of good quality, if sometimes quirky (squash scones??). During the epoch when I schlepped my mother to her winter golfing grounds in Florida, I got to know independents along the (Staunton Coffee, Evie's in Roanoke, and in our destination of New Smyrna Beach (Third Wave), but generally were reduced to keeping an eye out for Starbucks-- while my mother enjoyed the bizarre whipped pumpkin concoctions, I was able to get decent americanos. The other choice was US road coffee, about which the less said the better.
I have been spending much of the workweek lately in a certain southwest Ontario border town, not a place generally considered a foodie haven, but am relieved to report the independent coffee shop situation is actually quite good.
I was recently in the nearest city with a friend, both of us in need of a cup of tea after viewing an exhibition. We went into Cafe Nero because it was nearest. Tables were available and cleared. We ordered two teas and were asked if we wanted a pot each or to share. We were informed that we could get two cups out of a pot, so we opted for one. We also bought a slice of cake between us, not because we were tight-fisted but because that’s all we wanted, just a taste of something sweet. The server was most helpful and obliging. Everything was clean. Top marks on this occasion.
Comments
Surely Holy Water blessed by activated charcoal filters is the way of the Lord?
It does. How quickly is a valid question though. A quick trawl of t'interwebs suggests 15-20 minutes would be required.
However, some tap water is treated with chloramine which is a liquid so can't be driven off simply by boiling. It can however be removed by treating water with sodium thiosulphate (as for that matter can chlorine). However this reaction liberates ammonia which has its own problems. On the other hand, chloramine isn't as smelly as chlorine in the first place.
To some extent, I think businesses like coffee shops are reflections of the larger economy, and what you're seeing here is what's happening to you everywhere else. Corners get cut, profit over service, and monopolies who know you don't have a choice about where to shop so they'll just abuse you because it's cheaper that way.
It's not coffee. It's capitalism.
This probably happens over here but shouldn’t. Yes it is a nice thing to do, I have seen on TV that something similar can happen for beer tankards over there. No company should wash a mug that is not owned by the company over here. That extends to ones kept at shop for specific customers. This for hygiene reasons. I know it does happen in a couple of places over here. It is more good practice than an actual law. You are mainly expected to use the cup provided or if you have a travel mug wash it yourself.
It's not uncommon to have a stack of cups next to a self-service coffee machine some distance from the till in cafés. It wouldn't occur to me to consider that a hygiene risk.
Fixed code. Dafyd Hell Host
What I’ve seen here (US, specifically Southern US), is that you can buy a mug from the coffee shop, which they’ll put your name on and keep for you. They may have various styles to choose from. You can’t take it out of the coffee shop. It’s essentially their mug, but you’re the only one who uses it.
I like the idea of having your own mug.
That is fine.
Yes it would be a problem for all dishes. That is why when using a professional dish washer you have to remove the dirt first. The dish washer essentially sanitises the cups.
I used to work in an institutional kitchen. Couldn't stand to see a dirty dish pit. Even though it wasn't my job as a server I would clean the entire pit and the washer before every shift because you can't get dishes clean in a dirty dish pit.
It used to drive me bananas when other servers wouldn't actually wash the glasses using the tub with soapy water and the glass brush, but would load them with lipstick stains and all into the sanitizer. As if that made a difference.
Anyway --- rant over. As you were.
AFF
I've seen coffee shops where a pegboard of customers' mugs is behind the counter on the back wall. By association, thoughtful Baristas get to know which regular customers use which mugs, and they touch few hands.
I hope your cereal wasn't soggy by the time you had fetched the spoon. Perhaps that's a different hell topic.
If you're looking for a coffee (tea, or other drink) served in proper cups with staff around to serve you and clear up then go somewhere else. When I do occasionally get a coffee out in town here, I use a wee shop where I place my order and take a seat and someone brings my coffee (in a proper cup) over when it's ready and clears up after I leave. I get better service, better coffee, and pay less than Starbucks.
None of the ones in the UK I have been to have a place to sort you dirty crockery. Cups have to be left on the tables. Yes they appear to be short on staff but they should have a person clearing. That would encourage people to come in.
When I do finish my coffee in these places if there isn't a place for dirty cups I take it back to the serving counter. They always say thank you.
It's years since I drank at Starbucks; they have basically left Australia. They entered the Aussie market in (I think ) the 1990s, and most shops closed soon afterwards. No-one would drink their coffee! There are a few in tourist spots - there's one at Sydney Airport and I saw another on the Gold Coast, but Aussies like their local coffee shop, where proper coffee comes in proper cups and is brought to the table. This is true even of the local chains like Coffee Club.
Starbucks aren't alone, Costa and Nero are no better.
And the prices!!!!!!
We have a local chain called Coffi Lab - the Lab in question being Labrador rather than Laboratory as I'd assumed! The coffee is excellent. They are expanding so I hope the quality doesn't deteriorate as it has IMO for Coffee #1.
I never use Starbucks as I think their coffee is awful. Costa and Nero are better.
I've just ordered some of the coffee beans they use. Prompted by this thread! 🙂
We have a Coffee One here as well - nice ambiance and delicious cakes but service is slow due to low staff numbers and uncleared tables and an unswept floor are often a problem. I go there often as it's our biggest coffee emporium and they don't seem to mind how long you sit there with a laptop or book. They also have a table and sitting area near the door designated for people with "well-behaved dogs" but over time this has unofficially transmogrified into "dogs allowed at any table" and some people's definition of "well-behaved" differs from mine.
We have one excellent independently run coffee shop/café here - everything is spotlessly clean, service is quick, food delicious, prices reasonable. They open early to catch the breakfast trade, close at 2pm every day and are closed at the weekend; I presume this is how they manage costs. I'm going there today for lunch.
Starbucks coffee is like battery acid.
I find that garden centre cafes are generally much nicer places to have a coffee and their cakes are usually excellent.
I'm generally not out in town long enough to need a coffee. However if I'm out for the day on my motorbike ...... I'm fond of a well run "greasy spoon." There are times when a big mug of filter coffee and a bacon and egg bap just hit the spot.
A bit like church?
Hospital is similar. 57 in a couple of weeks and when I was stuck in there for a week I was a good 20 years younger than every other patient.
On the basis of a month wandering in Oz between Newcastle and Melbourne, I think it safe to say that the natives do not know how to make bad coffee. My locals were Illi Hill and Two Chaps in Marrickville, and Ground Floor on Hunter St in Newcastle, but there are likely even better that I did not discover. My standard long black /americano (now known in the Great White North as a canadiano) was uniformly rich, not bitter, and the espresso I had in Greek and Arab neighbourhoods was substantial and not aggressive. Espresso machines could be found in gas stations.
Generally I seek out independents over chains and luckily we now live in an era, however benighted, where independents seem to flourish, with coffee names devised by graduate students or political exiles. Often the baking is of good quality, if sometimes quirky (squash scones??). During the epoch when I schlepped my mother to her winter golfing grounds in Florida, I got to know independents along the (Staunton Coffee, Evie's in Roanoke, and in our destination of New Smyrna Beach (Third Wave), but generally were reduced to keeping an eye out for Starbucks-- while my mother enjoyed the bizarre whipped pumpkin concoctions, I was able to get decent americanos. The other choice was US road coffee, about which the less said the better.