@Basketactortale I have seen malicious aggression on the school rugby field, and sometimes I’m sure the teachers cordoned it. Usually the victim was not part of the “in group” which is typical in schools. No wonder people hate sport.
There’s a saying in South Wales, regarding bright working class boys going on to university and beyond.
Those who can, do.
Those who can’t, teach
and
Those who can’t teach, teach Gym.
I don't think that stigmatising teaching as a profession - especially when primary teaching in particular is desperate for more male teachers - is helpful. Surely we want teaching PE to be an attractive career in order to attract people who are good at it? Teaching is a very difficult skill, and it's one that doesn't get anywhere near the respect it deserves.
@Pomona, not for the first time I have posted in the wrong place, I was trying to make a joke, but this is Purgatory, so jokes are not allowed except in exceptional circumstances, and I don’t think this is exceptional,
I'm aware that you probably don't think that people only become teachers because they can't do anything else (as the unfunny "joke" suggests) but I don't see how making fun of teachers is funny.
I hated PE at school and had shit teachers, the solution isn't to make being a PE teacher a job that nobody wants to do. Joking is not a problem, but this is a real issue in society that affects the most vulnerable kids the most directly. Access to good PE lessons is a public health issue.
Speaking as an individual who is certified to teach in my province, during my education degree we always chuckled at a variation of that joke. Those who can do, those who can't teach, those who can't teach teach teachers. Is was never meant to denigrate the profession we were preparing to enter; it was meant as a light-hearted way not to take ourselves too seriously. YMMV. ( I had very good PE teachers in my day.)
I believe women are in fact on average more prone to concussion than men - for example this article - besides, introducing this dangerous sport to a demographic which previously didn't play it much must increase the number of potential victims.
You can play rugby without tackling. Women have also been playing rugby for years and years, it's not new - I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that women didn't play it before.
Apologies I should have said "expanding" rather than "introducing". Women of course have played full-contact rugby for many years - otherwise we would not have national teams. However I think it is still true to say that the proportion and absolute number of women playing rugby is considerably lower than for men.
The greater visibility and celebration of women's rugby in the last couple of decades - and presumably this is done partly with a view to inspiring more girls and women to take up the sport - is great from an equal-opportunities perspective but perhaps not so much so from a brain-health persepctive.
You can indeed play rugby without tackling and perhaps touch-rugby is something that should be advocated (and televised?) more for all ages and genders.
I did at one time, but have lost all interest. Perhaps if I was with a group or there is person I might enjoy it. Right now it seems like a waste of time.
I watch many sports. A few are beyond me. Golf, love to hate. Mark Twain once called it an good way to ruin a good walk. Used to watch the Olympics from the time the torch was lit to when it was extinguished. Now, no more.
I watch many sports. A few are beyond me. Golf, love to hate. Mark Twain once called it an good way to ruin a good walk.
“Golf is a good walk spoiled” is regularly attributed to Twain, but there’s no evidence he actually said it, and it wasn’t attributed him until 38 years after he died. More here.
I have very little interest in sport, but there is a rugby field at the end of the street I lived in as a child and we used to catch up with our mates there when a game was on, and also pay our respects to Nana Harris (an elderly woman who was a rabid supporter of the local team.
In my late teens I used to watch golf on TV with my Dad. There was a series, possibly from the B.B.C with Henry Longfellow doing the commentary. He had such a lovely voice, and because Dad played golf it was a special time for us together.
I'm not suggesting banning contact sports totally, just pending reforms that would make them less dangerous. I think it's also worth examining the morality of people involved in sports promotion, televising, gambling etc effectively making huge sums of money from other people's head injury rodeo. It's one thing for an adult to choose to play a dangerous sport, it's imo quite another for lots of people to be making money from that while also opposing safety reforms.
It's also, of course, a very different thing to encourage children and young people to play a sport that may seriously damage their brain before their brain is even done growing - to say nothing of the enormous sums of money funnelled into school and college sports in the US, often to the detriment of non-sports programmes.
When my daughter was at school, one of the boys opined at the start of a P.E. lesson, that mixed sex sport was wrong, because girls, being the weaker sex, were at risk of being hurt. Well, he discovered that when girls are determined to give no quarter, he was at as much risk of ending up with a concussion as the girl (my daughter in this instance) with whom he clashed heads.
I'm not suggesting banning contact sports totally, just pending reforms that would make them less dangerous. I think it's also worth examining the morality of people involved in sports promotion, televising, gambling etc effectively making huge sums of money from other people's head injury rodeo. It's one thing for an adult to choose to play a dangerous sport, it's imo quite another for lots of people to be making money from that while also opposing safety reforms.
It's also, of course, a very different thing to encourage children and young people to play a sport that may seriously damage their brain before their brain is even done growing - to say nothing of the enormous sums of money funnelled into school and college sports in the US, often to the detriment of non-sports programmes.
This is true, also about kids and schools.
I’m still not sure what kind of reforms enforced by government would be appropriate though. I think there could be a really serious danger of overreach. Though in schools that are funded/run by the government, that’s a different matter than what individuals and non-government-related sports teams do, of course.
When my daughter was at school, one of the boys opined at the start of a P.E. lesson, that mixed sex sport was wrong, because girls, being the weaker sex, were at risk of being hurt. Well, he discovered that when girls are determined to give no quarter, he was at as much risk of ending up with a concussion as the girl (my daughter in this instance) with whom he clashed heads.
My son had one girl on his soccar team, everyone was in awe of her. Sweet thing off the field, but when playing watch out.
Raising a solitary hand in defence of (some) PE teachers! When I was training for my career as a PE teacher in the 1970s we were given an excellent grounding many different sporting activities including dance, aerobics and gymnastics, we even included 'going for a walk'. It was a mantra with our lecturers that we were aiming to introduce every student to a physical activity they would enjoy, and hopefully this exercise would be a life-long habit to the benefit of the person concerned as well as to society at large. We entered the profession full of idealism and enthusiasm to find that most schools only offered a very limited range of activities, no choice, a heavy emphasis on competition and team games where only the most skilled gained any real enjoyment. Fertile ground for disaffected students and disillusioned teachers.
I'm not suggesting banning contact sports totally, just pending reforms that would make them less dangerous. I think it's also worth examining the morality of people involved in sports promotion, televising, gambling etc effectively making huge sums of money from other people's head injury rodeo. It's one thing for an adult to choose to play a dangerous sport, it's imo quite another for lots of people to be making money from that while also opposing safety reforms.
It's also, of course, a very different thing to encourage children and young people to play a sport that may seriously damage their brain before their brain is even done growing - to say nothing of the enormous sums of money funnelled into school and college sports in the US, often to the detriment of non-sports programmes.
This is true, also about kids and schools.
I’m still not sure what kind of reforms enforced by government would be appropriate though. I think there could be a really serious danger of overreach. Though in schools that are funded/run by the government, that’s a different matter than what individuals and non-government-related sports teams do, of course.
I was imagining something akin to national sporting bodies working with the relevant government department - in the UK we have the Department for Culture, Media, and Sport which provides funding for some sports as well as governmental oversight. Government funding for national sports is quite common globally - I don't know if the US has anything similar.
My biggest concern with American football is the huge amount of money being made off the back of life-changing injuries, and most of that money being made by people who never personally risk their own health by playing themselves. I think that's arguably a public health issue, as is sports betting and the gambling industry. The UK has had the kind of sports betting industry the US is only just getting for many years, and it has had a major negative impact including many suicides. Gambling addiction is a public health issue, not just a personal issue.
Raising a solitary hand in defence of (some) PE teachers! When I was training for my career as a PE teacher in the 1970s we were given an excellent grounding many different sporting activities including dance, aerobics and gymnastics, we even included 'going for a walk'. It was a mantra with our lecturers that we were aiming to introduce every student to a physical activity they would enjoy, and hopefully this exercise would be a life-long habit to the benefit of the person concerned as well as to society at large. We entered the profession full of idealism and enthusiasm to find that most schools only offered a very limited range of activities, no choice, a heavy emphasis on competition and team games where only the most skilled gained any real enjoyment. Fertile ground for disaffected students and disillusioned teachers.
Thank you for at least trying to make things better for students!
When my daughter was at school, one of the boys opined at the start of a P.E. lesson, that mixed sex sport was wrong, because girls, being the weaker sex, were at risk of being hurt. Well, he discovered that when girls are determined to give no quarter, he was at as much risk of ending up with a concussion as the girl (my daughter in this instance) with whom he clashed heads.
My son had one girl on his soccar team, everyone was in awe of her. Sweet thing off the field, but when playing watch out.
Similarly, at the school I did 6th firm in, the boy's hockey team were all well 'ard until anyone suggested they played the girls XI at which point there was sudden backpedalling and hiding behind things.
I'm not suggesting banning contact sports totally, just pending reforms that would make them less dangerous. I think it's also worth examining the morality of people involved in sports promotion, televising, gambling etc effectively making huge sums of money from other people's head injury rodeo. It's one thing for an adult to choose to play a dangerous sport, it's imo quite another for lots of people to be making money from that while also opposing safety reforms.
It's also, of course, a very different thing to encourage children and young people to play a sport that may seriously damage their brain before their brain is even done growing - to say nothing of the enormous sums of money funnelled into school and college sports in the US, often to the detriment of non-sports programmes.
This is true, also about kids and schools.
I’m still not sure what kind of reforms enforced by government would be appropriate though. I think there could be a really serious danger of overreach. Though in schools that are funded/run by the government, that’s a different matter than what individuals and non-government-related sports teams do, of course.
I was imagining something akin to national sporting bodies working with the relevant government department - in the UK we have the Department for Culture, Media, and Sport which provides funding for some sports as well as governmental oversight. Government funding for national sports is quite common globally - I don't know if the US has anything similar.
My biggest concern with American football is the huge amount of money being made off the back of life-changing injuries, and most of that money being made by people who never personally risk their own health by playing themselves. I think that's arguably a public health issue, as is sports betting and the gambling industry. The UK has had the kind of sports betting industry the US is only just getting for many years, and it has had a major negative impact including many suicides. Gambling addiction is a public health issue, not just a personal issue.
Totally agree on gambling. The amount of faux-responsibility from the UK gambling industry is sickening. From watching gambling ads on TV, you would think that the whole raison d'etre of William Hill, Paddy Power etcetera was to prevent people from gambling too much, as though they were public-service bodies. Particularly weaselly was the "When The Fun Stops Stop" slogan, which under the disguise of concern really smuggles in the message: "Under normal circumstances, gambling is always FUN! If you do not find gambling FUN, perhaps there is something wrong with you!".
At it's best, sport can be like a theatre play without a script, and just occasionally the mouse beats the lion. It seems to me that this strikes a chord within many of us.
...He has cast down the mightly from their thrones, and exulted the humble and meek.....
In the blue corner - give him a big hand - we have 3-times champion your own your very own, 'goliath'. In the red corner we have .....
Imagine the post-match discussion!
Both my dad and grandad played cricket for my town first team. My dad had a tryout for Lancashire but didn’t take it because I was on the way. They were also darts champions of the town though the local game is not 501. My mum was also a darts champion locally.
That means I can watch a game of cricket and some darts. I however was a champion ballroom dancer which I can watch all day.
During an Olympics I will watch some of the more artistic and some more obscure games, particularly in the winter games. I wouldn’t say I watch any of them regularly except the dancing
[More anecdotage... I mentioned above that I rowed while a student, though briefly. Fast forward over 50 years when I decided to try a rowing machine at the YMCA. "You're doing it all wrong!" said a helpful bystander. I was not. I had picked up exactly from where I left off pulling bow in a four all those years ago without even thinking about it. If only my brain had as good a memory as my body seems to have...]
I don't understand wanting to watch a sport like cricket over something like gymnastics. Team sports always seem much less interesting to me than individual sports where it's one very talented person.
Whilst I agree with you about the talented Ms Biles, I don't agree with this. Solo demonstration sports where someone comes on and does something difficult but pre-rehearsed doesn't interest me. If that's what I want to watch, I'd rather watch dance, where there's an actual story and a meaning.
The thing that makes sport interesting for me is the competition, and watching people do their thing sequentially just doesn't have that competitive element. I feel largely the same about the jumping and throwing events. I'd far rather watch something where the competitors need to react and adapt to what their opponents do.
I enjoy(ed) playing social cricket and tennis ( some people would take a bottle of beer with them onto the field).
But I do not find watching those sports or others interesting. Some are dominated by business interests, (I think table-tennis equipment was adjusted to make it easier to televise). My father followed Tottenham Hotspur, but I can't think of it as my "home" team.
But of course solo sportspeople are competing against each other. They're just competing individually rather than as a team. Also, sports teams also rehearse their gameplay, that's a normal part of all competitive sports.
One of the great appeals is that sport is unscripted drama. You don't what will happen, so if you do get emotionally invested in it, you are along for a ride.
I will not forget, while I was emptying my London flat, listening to the Headingley Test in 2019. England were doomed to another defeat; it seemed merely a matter of time. But somehow we kept going. It was a great crescendo, peppered with heart-stopping moments. Watching it back is still fun, but it won't compare to living it at the time, being lured on by hope, knowing it could all end in disaster in a second, but it just kept going until the moment of triumph.
I'm delighted to get some normal TV programmes back now the wretched tennis is over. Just a few more days of soccer ball sponsored by the utterly corrupt FIFA and things should be back to normal.
But there’s The Open! On Sky though, so you should be able to avoid it. Highlight of the summer though as far as Mr F and I are concerned.
I live about 7 miles from Hoylake which has hosted the Open a couple of times recently. Canny home owners have done quite nicely by going on holiday and renting their houses out to visitors.
And don't forget the s*dding Comonwealth Games. Reminds me of Roman story where the senator was asked about shipping bread or sand for the Circus Maximus. Thus thecliche, 'Bread or Circus'? We have more than enough clowns for several circuses, I'm afraid.
And don't forget the s*dding Comonwealth Games. Reminds me of Roman story where the senator was asked about shipping bread or sand for the Circus Maximus. Thus thecliche, 'Bread or Circus'? We have more than enough clowns for several circuses, I'm afraid.
I have never heard of that being the origin of the phrase. I thought it was a satirical poem about how imperial Rome prevented social unrest by providing cheap food (bread) and entertainment (circuses).
But of course solo sportspeople are competing against each other. They're just competing individually rather than as a team. Also, sports teams also rehearse their gameplay, that's a normal part of all competitive sports.
Sure, but in the demonstration-shaped sports, you don't really interact with your competitors, beyond perhaps making strategic choices to take a risk or be conservative based on your opponents' current standings.
(It's not solo vs team: synchronized swimming is a demonstration-shaped sport for a group of people. Singles tennis is a solo sport played in direct competition with an opponent. )
One of the great appeals is that sport is unscripted drama. You don't what will happen, so if you do get emotionally invested in it, you are along for a ride.
I will not forget, while I was emptying my London flat, listening to the Headingley Test in 2019. England were doomed to another defeat; it seemed merely a matter of time. But somehow we kept going. It was a great crescendo, peppered with heart-stopping moments. Watching it back is still fun, but it won't compare to living it at the time, being lured on by hope, knowing it could all end in disaster in a second, but it just kept going until the moment of triumph.
I was playing that day, and the ground had a new digital scoreboard but had kept the old one. So our score went on the new board, and England's on the old one so we could keep an eye- and, wonder of wonders, the victory came at tea time! An Aussie mate reckoned Stokes played two of the bravest knocks he'd ever seen - high praise!
(It's not solo vs team: synchronized swimming is a demonstration-shaped sport for a group of people. Singles tennis is a solo sport played in direct competition with an opponent. )
Somehow there is solo synchronised swimming although a quick web search tells me it is now called artistic swimming.
(It's not solo vs team: synchronized swimming is a demonstration-shaped sport for a group of people. Singles tennis is a solo sport played in direct competition with an opponent. )
Somehow there is solo synchronised swimming although a quick web search tells me it is now called artistic swimming.
Comments
I don't think that stigmatising teaching as a profession - especially when primary teaching in particular is desperate for more male teachers - is helpful. Surely we want teaching PE to be an attractive career in order to attract people who are good at it? Teaching is a very difficult skill, and it's one that doesn't get anywhere near the respect it deserves.
Can we please forgive me?
I hated PE at school and had shit teachers, the solution isn't to make being a PE teacher a job that nobody wants to do. Joking is not a problem, but this is a real issue in society that affects the most vulnerable kids the most directly. Access to good PE lessons is a public health issue.
Apologies I should have said "expanding" rather than "introducing". Women of course have played full-contact rugby for many years - otherwise we would not have national teams. However I think it is still true to say that the proportion and absolute number of women playing rugby is considerably lower than for men.
The greater visibility and celebration of women's rugby in the last couple of decades - and presumably this is done partly with a view to inspiring more girls and women to take up the sport - is great from an equal-opportunities perspective but perhaps not so much so from a brain-health persepctive.
You can indeed play rugby without tackling and perhaps touch-rugby is something that should be advocated (and televised?) more for all ages and genders.
Try Mortimer and Whitehouse: Gone Fishing.
It's brilliant.
In my late teens I used to watch golf on TV with my Dad. There was a series, possibly from the B.B.C with Henry Longfellow doing the commentary. He had such a lovely voice, and because Dad played golf it was a special time for us together.
This is true, also about kids and schools.
I’m still not sure what kind of reforms enforced by government would be appropriate though. I think there could be a really serious danger of overreach. Though in schools that are funded/run by the government, that’s a different matter than what individuals and non-government-related sports teams do, of course.
My son had one girl on his soccar team, everyone was in awe of her. Sweet thing off the field, but when playing watch out.
I was imagining something akin to national sporting bodies working with the relevant government department - in the UK we have the Department for Culture, Media, and Sport which provides funding for some sports as well as governmental oversight. Government funding for national sports is quite common globally - I don't know if the US has anything similar.
My biggest concern with American football is the huge amount of money being made off the back of life-changing injuries, and most of that money being made by people who never personally risk their own health by playing themselves. I think that's arguably a public health issue, as is sports betting and the gambling industry. The UK has had the kind of sports betting industry the US is only just getting for many years, and it has had a major negative impact including many suicides. Gambling addiction is a public health issue, not just a personal issue.
Thank you for at least trying to make things better for students!
Similarly, at the school I did 6th firm in, the boy's hockey team were all well 'ard until anyone suggested they played the girls XI at which point there was sudden backpedalling and hiding behind things.
Totally agree on gambling. The amount of faux-responsibility from the UK gambling industry is sickening. From watching gambling ads on TV, you would think that the whole raison d'etre of William Hill, Paddy Power etcetera was to prevent people from gambling too much, as though they were public-service bodies. Particularly weaselly was the "When The Fun Stops Stop" slogan, which under the disguise of concern really smuggles in the message: "Under normal circumstances, gambling is always FUN! If you do not find gambling FUN, perhaps there is something wrong with you!".
...He has cast down the mightly from their thrones, and exulted the humble and meek.....
Heron
Imagine the post-match discussion!
That means I can watch a game of cricket and some darts. I however was a champion ballroom dancer which I can watch all day.
During an Olympics I will watch some of the more artistic and some more obscure games, particularly in the winter games. I wouldn’t say I watch any of them regularly except the dancing
Whilst I agree with you about the talented Ms Biles, I don't agree with this. Solo demonstration sports where someone comes on and does something difficult but pre-rehearsed doesn't interest me. If that's what I want to watch, I'd rather watch dance, where there's an actual story and a meaning.
The thing that makes sport interesting for me is the competition, and watching people do their thing sequentially just doesn't have that competitive element. I feel largely the same about the jumping and throwing events. I'd far rather watch something where the competitors need to react and adapt to what their opponents do.
But I do not find watching those sports or others interesting. Some are dominated by business interests, (I think table-tennis equipment was adjusted to make it easier to televise). My father followed Tottenham Hotspur, but I can't think of it as my "home" team.
I will not forget, while I was emptying my London flat, listening to the Headingley Test in 2019. England were doomed to another defeat; it seemed merely a matter of time. But somehow we kept going. It was a great crescendo, peppered with heart-stopping moments. Watching it back is still fun, but it won't compare to living it at the time, being lured on by hope, knowing it could all end in disaster in a second, but it just kept going until the moment of triumph.
I live about 7 miles from Hoylake which has hosted the Open a couple of times recently. Canny home owners have done quite nicely by going on holiday and renting their houses out to visitors.
I have never heard of that being the origin of the phrase. I thought it was a satirical poem about how imperial Rome prevented social unrest by providing cheap food (bread) and entertainment (circuses).
Sure, but in the demonstration-shaped sports, you don't really interact with your competitors, beyond perhaps making strategic choices to take a risk or be conservative based on your opponents' current standings.
(It's not solo vs team: synchronized swimming is a demonstration-shaped sport for a group of people. Singles tennis is a solo sport played in direct competition with an opponent. )
I was playing that day, and the ground had a new digital scoreboard but had kept the old one. So our score went on the new board, and England's on the old one so we could keep an eye- and, wonder of wonders, the victory came at tea time! An Aussie mate reckoned Stokes played two of the bravest knocks he'd ever seen - high praise!
Somehow there is solo synchronised swimming although a quick web search tells me it is now called artistic swimming.
Yes, it's essentially water-based rhythmic gymnastics.