The Octagon

A few months ago I heard a priest talk about the octagon or eight sided shape in Christian iconography. The day after the seventh day (Sabbath) is the commemoration of the Resurrection of Christ and the first day of the new covenant. Baptism is the first sacrament of the New Covenant and baptismal fonts in churches recall this in having either eight sides or being built upon eight columns. Over the last few weeks I have looked at baptismal fonts in six RC churches in my locality and found this to be the case. It is something which I have never thought about before.
What is the baptismal font in your church like ?

Comments

  • Our Place is early-20th C, and IIRC the font is indeed octagonal. OTOH, some (at least) earlier examples were not necessarily so, as witnessed by the Norman font in the delightfully idiosyncratic church at Brookland, on Kent's Romney Marsh:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Augustine's_Church,_Brookland
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    Our Place is early-20th C, and IIRC the font is indeed octagonal. OTOH, some (at least) earlier examples were not necessarily so, as witnessed by the Norman font in the delightfully idiosyncratic church at Brookland, on Kent's Romney Marsh:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Augustine's_Church,_Brookland

    There’s a real Romney Marsh?? 😮
  • SandemaniacSandemaniac Shipmate
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Our Place is early-20th C, and IIRC the font is indeed octagonal. OTOH, some (at least) earlier examples were not necessarily so, as witnessed by the Norman font in the delightfully idiosyncratic church at Brookland, on Kent's Romney Marsh:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Augustine's_Church,_Brookland

    There’s a real Romney Marsh?? 😮

    There certainly is. It even has its own breed of sheep - the lush pastures made good grazing and the salt blowing off the sea helps prevent the bacterial infections that cause foot rot on wet pastures, so prime sheep country.

    It's a splendidly weird place, bookmarked at one end by a vast expanse of shingle peppered with wartime relics, a narrow-gauge railway, a lighthouse, and nuclear power stations.

    It also has the isolated Fairfield church, though I can't see a pic of its font anywhere.

    St Bats in the Belfry has a stone late Saxon/early Norman font shaped very mich like a flowerpot - round with tapering sides. It's in the tower, right between the ropes for bells 2 & 3, but presumably was once against a wall as one of the carved sets of decoration only goes two thirds of the way round, and gets simpler towards the end as if the mason was struggling to reach.

    I wonder if the octagon was adopted later, maybe for example because it was a handy shape for showing the seven sacraments? Or just a theory to try to explain a preponderance of 8-sided fonts?
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Our place is mid 20th century and the font has four sides with angels chasing out the devil. Theres a description here. Its no longer used as the baptistry is located off the porch and is far too small to accommodate more than a handful of people.
    https://artandchristianity.org/ecclesiart-listings/velarde-tyson-smith-english-martyrs
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 1
    If you enlarge this view of the interior of Fairfield Church, you can just make out the font - which appears to be octagonal (but not very big):

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-interior-of-st-thomas-a-becket-church-on-romney-marsh-at-fairfield-112635430.html
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited March 1
    Our lovely Methodist Chapel has an octagonal font. It's small, about a foot across, and beautifully carved in wood with a lid.

    The present Chapel was built in 1817 but I'm not sure how old the font is, it could be older.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    I rather suspect, but cannot prove that (a) octagonal is an easy shape to make a font which allows good access to a round bowl and (b) the symbolism ascribed to it is a piece of devotional theology attached to something that existed for other reasons.

    (I feel similarly about the water added to wine for the Eucharist. The standard custom of mixing wine with water in the ancient Mediterranean world then had a devotional gloss put on it - either read as symbolising uniting humanity and divinity or reflecting the water and blood flowing from Jesus’ side at the crucifixion.)
  • ChastMastr wrote: »
    Our Place is early-20th C, and IIRC the font is indeed octagonal. OTOH, some (at least) earlier examples were not necessarily so, as witnessed by the Norman font in the delightfully idiosyncratic church at Brookland, on Kent's Romney Marsh:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Augustine's_Church,_Brookland

    There’s a real Romney Marsh?? 😮

    Romney Marsh? Have you read Russell Thorndike's Dr Syn books? If not, there's a pleasure in store for you.
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Our Place is early-20th C, and IIRC the font is indeed octagonal. OTOH, some (at least) earlier examples were not necessarily so, as witnessed by the Norman font in the delightfully idiosyncratic church at Brookland, on Kent's Romney Marsh:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Augustine's_Church,_Brookland

    There’s a real Romney Marsh?? 😮

    Romney Marsh? Have you read Russell Thorndike's Dr Syn books? If not, there's a pleasure in store for you.

    I’ve not read the books, but I have seen some of the TV series, The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh. I did not know it was a real place.
  • When I saw the title of this thread I immediately of the 1970s shopping centre in High Wycombe!

    There is also a major road junction in Budapest with the name (slightly different spelling): https://pestbuda.hu/gallery/2020 marc/oktogon.jpg
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    BroJames wrote: »
    I rather suspect, but cannot prove that (a) octagonal is an easy shape to make a font which allows good access to a round bowl and (b) the symbolism ascribed to it is a piece of devotional theology attached to something that existed for other reasons.

    A circular font would be even easier to make (and you could equally attach some kind of devotional theology to it) and is easier to move into place.

    Octagonal fonts start to appear sometime in the middle ages afaicr.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    Our place has a round basin carved out of a square piece of stone. Quite large - big enough to do total immersion of a baby.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    edited 12:01PM
    I had never heard this, but our font is indeed octagonal. It was gifted to the church in 1949 and is wooden with an inset circular basin. I think the basin is silver-plate.

    A neighbouring church has a circular wooden font. It was gifted to the church in 1930 in memory of their mother by the twelve of her children who survived to adulthood. A particularly apposite gift!

    (Both Presbyterian churches.)
  • I think I'm right in saying that the first purpose-built Methodist chapel was octagonal in plan.

    Wesley apparently thought it was the ideal shape.

    I don't know whether I'm imagining this but I've heard there are octagonal church buildings in the Eastern Mediterranean.
  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    I think I'm right in saying that the first purpose-built Methodist chapel was octagonal in plan.

    The building is rectangular. The lantern in the roof is octagonal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wesley's_New_Room#/media/File:New_Room.jpg

  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    edited 2:53PM
    I haven't been in it, but St Margaret's Church, Huntly, Aberdeenshire is an octagonal church.

    (Octagonal, with an entrance porch added on one of the eight sides.)
  • I think I'm right in saying that the first purpose-built Methodist chapel was octagonal in plan.

    The building is rectangular. The lantern in the roof is octagonal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wesley's_New_Room#/media/File:New_Room.jpg

    I was thinking of this one.

    https://heptonstall.org/heptonstall-methodist-chapel/

    I've been in both.

    As far as I am aware the Heptonstall chapel was the first to be built with Methodist worship in mind. I might be wrong but I think the New Room had a previous life.
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    I haven't been in it, but St Margaret's Church, Huntly, Aberdeenshire is an octagonal church.

    (Octagonal, with an entrance porch added on one of the eight sides.)

    We went there for their Christmas Eve service this past December. Nice building, good priest. My husband had met him during his organ researches.
    The CofS in Kelso is also octagonal, and larger than St. Margaret’s.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Thank you for all the comments on the subject of the Octagon which I had never thought of until just a few weeks ago. One of the first Christian churches built with eight sides was the Church of the Holy Apostles in Constantinople and where the Emperor Constantine was buried. It is no longer there.
    St Margaret's in Huntly is built in a somewhat Spanish style as it was donated by the family of Gordon's gin. Again I have never looked or thought about this before but I imagine that there are quite a few octagonal churches in Spain.
  • SandemaniacSandemaniac Shipmate
    The Sandemanian kirk in Dundee (aka the Kail Kirk) is octagonal.
  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    [

    As far as I am aware the Heptonstall chapel was the first to be built with Methodist worship in mind. I might be wrong but I think the New Room had a previous life.

    New Room originally built by John Wesley in 1739 and rebuilt to be twice the size in 1748. It had a later (rather than previous) life as a Welsh Calvinist Methodist Chapel (1808 - 1929).

    I do not know what shape the original 1739 building had.
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