Sad tale of a birthday chasuble
Foaming Draught
Shipmate
Not a discussion topic, just a frustrating tale of a birthday present and unhelpful church seasons:
My sister-in-law asked my wife to make her an Ordinary Time chasuble for her birthday, this coming Monday, February 16. After careful embroidery featuring requested Queensland nature scenes, my wife couriered the chasuble to her sister, it arrived yesterday.
An Ordinary Time chazzie, eh? This Sunday is Transfiguration, then Lent, then Easter, then Pentecost, then Trinity Sunday. It will be half way through the year before my sister-in-law sports her birthday present.
My sister-in-law asked my wife to make her an Ordinary Time chasuble for her birthday, this coming Monday, February 16. After careful embroidery featuring requested Queensland nature scenes, my wife couriered the chasuble to her sister, it arrived yesterday.
An Ordinary Time chazzie, eh? This Sunday is Transfiguration, then Lent, then Easter, then Pentecost, then Trinity Sunday. It will be half way through the year before my sister-in-law sports her birthday present.
Comments
Lots of people have birthday gifts that get used at times other than the actual birthday, I'm not sure what the problem is - presumably your SIL just doesn't have many Ordinary Time chasubles and would like a new one, and is using her birthday as an occasion to get one made.
The sisters. One can't wear the present which the other one created, until half way through the year. @Clarence can't make a chazzie for me - well she could, but I'm a Uniting Church in Australia minister, retired at that, alb and stole is the limit of our tat. Even that is OTT for our younger ministers, the jolly church is turning into Hillsong-Lite.
@Sojourner although I dislike Hillsong for their unethical behaviour, I don't think that the Wesleys that preached in taverns would turn in their graves at the eschewing of vestments. I think the Wesleys would be reasonable enough to accept different church traditions - and indeed Pentecostalism IS a tradition with Wesleyan heritage.
As to the Wesleys, I daresay John at least sometimes led worship and preached whilst vested in Geneva gown and bands...but, of course, I may be wrong, and will happily defer to others more knowledgeable than I.
It's requested because it will be the most frequently used! Alright, it feels like half the year; in fact, it is close to a quarter. You then do get half a year plus of Ordinary time, at least if you keep to the strict seasons. The only thing that is wrong is the timing of the request, last year or next year, and she would have had a week or so to wear it before Lent.
I think we have to tread carefully when it comes to speculating about what the Wesley brothers would or wouldn't approve where they able to 'turn in their graves' or, more likely, look down from heaven to see what happened next.
John Wesley may often be called the 'Grandfather of Pentecostalism' but that doesn't mean he'd necessarily approve of it.
A close reading of his journals and other accounts shows he tried to dampen down some of the more 'out there' aspects of religious 'enthusiasm.'
At other times he whipped things up.
Lack of consistency makes 'Pope John' a fascinating individual. And very much like the rest of us.
And yes, he'd preach in gown and bands in the pulpit as well as in clerical frock-coat and gaiters outside.
At the risk of a tangent, I often feel that both High and Low Church types get the wrong end of the stick with Wesley.
The Wesleys were High Church Anglicans, in the 'Church and King' sense. That didn't involve bells and smells at that time.
Equally, whilst contemporary evangelicalism owes a great deal to the Wesleys - and others - that doesn't mean that they'd go along with everything associated with that constituency today.
John Wesley could be pretty eirenic but at other times he was rather dismissive of non-Anglicans. Again, don't expect consistency.
First rule when reading anything by John Wesley. Don't expect consistency.
It's one of the reasons why I'm a big fan.
On the other hand, Communion on Ash Wednesday? The Pietist me is reacting harshly. Ash Wednesday it is a penitential service, more like a confessional service, Ps. 51 and all that. Communion will not be until Maundy Thursday. Note Sundays in Lent are not counted as Lent, but little Easters. Communion is permitted.
I know, I am a contradiction of terms.
You are in good company.
As are we all. Paradox and contradictions abound across the whole spectrum.
I'm thinking of those that do mark Lent in some way. There are some which don't of course or which have a monthly communion or even less regularly than that.
The traditional wording is that they are Sundays in Lent rather than Sundays of Lent. But yes, they are not counted in the 40 days of Lent.
We have Communion on Ash Wednesday, as do many Presbyterian churches. In my experience, that is very much the norm for (American) Episcopal churches too.
@Gramps49, how does Communion on Maundy Thursday—the evening of which is liturgically the same day as the day of the crucifixion—fit into the penitential/little Easter distinction you’re drawing.
(And it’s perfectly fine if the answer is a reiteration of your admission of bring a contradiction. I can certainly relate.)
I don’t think a dichotomy of mandatory/adiaphora really fits here. Rather, I suspect the spectrum for liturgical colors is more
- The use of colored vestments/paraments is mandatory except under unusual circumstances, and the colors for each day or type of service are prescribed.
- The use of colored vestments/paraments is expected except under unusual circumstances, and the colors for each day or type of service are a matter of established tradition, adherence to which is generally expected.
- The use of colored vestments/paraments is normal, and while tradition suggests colors for each day or type of service, those are only suggestions that can be adhered to or not as circumstances warrant.
- The use of vestments/paraments in liturgical colors simply isn’t a thing.
I would put my tribe in the third category, and there may be other categories I didn’t think of this morning.Might this be better as a thread on its own?
@Nick Tamen Not sure how your tradition approaches Holy Week. The congregation I attend now will likely not have communion on Passion Sunday, but will conclude communion on Maunday Thursday. Depends on the pastor mostly. We will have a new Pastor somewhere around the middle of March. The call will be extended next week. The new guy has already indicated he will accept. He might have different ideas.
Aw, someone could make some chasubles for them do they don't feel left out...
As @Enoch says, it would hsve been cassock, surplice and black scarf back then.
Trouble is, even that's gone out of the window.
We now have Anglican clergy in Hawaiian shirts and chinos or wearing conference badges instead of clerical collars.
Is outrage!
C'mon. We all know that clergy are meant to have whopping big beards and funny hats and wear Byzantine court vestments.
As they have always done ... 😉
Isn't the received wisdom that John Wesley was buried in a "clergyman's gown"?