We are at Holy Apostles. A minor deal is made about our altar feast day (the feast of all aostles, of course), although I have no idea when it is. Hey, cake is cake.
Baptist churches are rarely named after a person, so I was also pleased to find Thomas Helwys Baptist Church. He was a founder of the first Baptist church in the UK. Baptists don't do saints, either, so I don't expect he has a commemoration.
There are (or were) a number of Spurgeon Baptist Churches, including one I visited many years ago in Guernsey.
We are at Holy Apostles. A minor deal is made about our altar feast day (the feast of all aostles, of course), although I have no idea when it is. Hey, cake is cake.
In the Calendar of the Orthodox Church the feast of the 12 Apostles is on 30th June (following on from St Peter and St Paul on 29th).
There is also a commemoration of the 70 Apostles on 4th January.
Baptist churches are rarely named after a person, so I was also pleased to find Thomas Helwys Baptist Church. He was a founder of the first Baptist church in the UK. Baptists don't do saints, either, so I don't expect he has a commemoration.
In Bristol we had (until it closed a few years ago) a St George Baptist Church, but this was named for the district (the former Anglican parish of St George) rather than directly for the saint.
I have been worshipping at a St Peters for over twenty years but I had no idea what his date is until I looked it up just now so I guess we largely ignore. The name is in letters on the front of the building but quite often one or more are missing. We could be celebrating St Peer or St Pet or something else which might be an idea for a Circus game.
I wonder what the most popular Saint is in terms of the number of churches named for them. I've tried searching on the web but not found anything yet. Maybe this will be a pointless Christmas Holiday project.
Our Place (C of E) is Holy Trinity (but not Brompton!). A rather common name, and I am somewhat envious of the nearby parish named for St Quiricus & St Juliett - I believe there are only three such dedications, all in the west country.
There's one with that unusual dedication but in their case SSt Quiricus and Julietta, at Tickenham, near Clevedon.
According to their website, Quiricus was Julietta's three year old child.
Nice tangential titbit. Eleanor Glanville, who first identified the Glanville Fritillary as a separate species of butterfly, lived much of her life in the house adjoining. Her husband and later her oldest son contested her will, eventually successfully, on the grounds that being interested in butterflies was proof of insanity.
Baptist churches are rarely named after a person, so I was also pleased to find Thomas Helwys Baptist Church.
In the States, Surname Memorial Baptist Church is fairly common.
Close to where I grew up is Weeping Mary Missionary Baptist Church, a rural African American Baptist congregation. I know of a few other Weeping Mary Baptist churches in the American South; “Weeping Mary” is an African American spiritual*, and the concept of Weeping Mary carried significance for recently-freed enslaved people. (The community of Weeping Mary, Texas, founded by previously enslaved people, is another example.)
It’s also not unusual to find African American Baptist churches, African Methodist Episcopal churches, African Methodist Episcopal Zion churches or Christian Methodist Episcopal churches with names like St. James, St. Thomas, St. Stephen, St. Mary or similar. Often, however, the “James,” “Thomas,” “Stephen,” “Mary” or other name isn’t the biblical figure, but rather is an important person in the founding of that congregation.
* “If there’s anybody here like weepin’ Mary,
call upon your Jesus, and he’ll draw nigh.
If there’s anybody here like weepin’ Mary,
call upon your Jesus, and he’ll draw nigh.
Oh, Glory. Glory hallelujah.
Glory be to my Lord who rules on high.”
Sometimes a memorial dedication or saint's name might have been a good option for a Baptist church. As in the case of, for example, Cemetery Road Baptist Church in a certain northern city.
A little question for you all to which maybe someone will have an answer. I was asked to play for "Patronal Eucharist" at a Christ Church on Trinity Sunday, not seeing the logic I asked why they were confusing "Christ" with "Holy Trinity" but nobody knew and one fellow said they were copying Christ Church Dublin. Whether true or not I cannot work out why Holy Trinity can be known as Christ Church. I hope somebody can enlighten me.
About the same level as one west country church where they said they kept no Feast Sunday because they had never found out who St Saviour was 😳😩 Clergy there obviousiy had not been doing their job!!
Wikipedia lists statistics for C of E dedications. Unsurprisingly, St Mary the Virgin is the stand-out winner, with almost double the number of the next contenders. All Saints, St Peter, St Michael, St Andrew, St Paul, and Holy Trinity take the rest of the top 7.
In the battle of the Johns, St John the Baptist beats out the Evangelist quite significantly.
St Michael the Archnagel wins in Cornwall being the principal and original patron of the Duchy. St Piran is a secondary patron and has only four dedications compared with about 20 for Michael. In Devon St Peter os very popular and in Somerset St Andrew but the BVM wins in most English counties I think. Maybe the medieval title of England's Dowry was something to do with it 🤔
In the battle of the Johns, St John the Baptist beats out the Evangelist quite significantly.
Despite the efforts of the Victorian church builders of the parish I grew up in who decided that building a St J the E was a good idea in a parish that already had a St J the B!
When I was a teenager the "Central Church" which was an LEP a merger, I think, between McFadyen URC (former Congregational) and Mclaren Memorial Baptist.
When I was a teenager the "Central Church" which was an LEP a merger, I think, between McFadyen URC (former Congregational) and Mclaren Memorial Baptist.
LEP - Local Ecumenical Partnership here, Baptist-URC, but they come in many different flavours, and the level of mixing varies as well. In some, you would not know there are distinct traditions; in others, it is very clear.
Relevant to this conversation, they work best when the smaller groups are given a disproportionately large voice at the table when they are set up.
Often, however, the “James,” “Thomas,” “Stephen,” “Mary” or other name isn’t the biblical figure, but rather is an important person in the founding of that congregation.
Cf the various St Anne's or St George's churches built in England during the reign of their respective monarchical namesakes.
There was a pious, and very rich, family in Liverpool in the 19th century who paid for the building of several churches. I am sure their devotion to the patron saint was real, but conveniently it often happened that those names were also the names of the benefactor's daughters.
My own church is "United Church", giving the impression that it is either an Ecumenical Church or a merger of two other churches. It is neither, although we think of ourselves as ecumenical rather than Baptist. The original aim was to form such a church but that wasn't possible at that time - however we did have an Anglican curate attached to us in the early days (late 1960s).
We have never celebrated our patronal feast either before or after the name change. But we did have a special Mass (returning clergy, a bit of extra sparkle to the music) and a bit of a knees up when the building was 75 years old.
We have a combined parish with patrons of St Peter and St Columba. There are usually social events around the days of their feasts (29th June and 9th June)
Yesterday I went to St Columba's and saw in front of the altar a display with a fishing net and fish (not real,of course). I asked someone if this was a new sort of Advent devotion and was reminded that NO - it was for a celebration of St Andrew's Day with a special Vespers Service the evening before.
Of course,it made absolute sense but not until it had been explained to me.
We have three centres in our amalgamated parish - Christ Church, St Paul the Apostle, and St Mary the Virgin. Christ Church is the oldest, set in rural surroundings between three settlements. St Paul and St Mary are between 115 and 120 years old, serving town communities which flourished with the development of a major coalfield.
A little question for you all to which maybe someone will have an answer. I was asked to play for "Patronal Eucharist" at a Christ Church on Trinity Sunday, not seeing the logic I asked why they were confusing "Christ" with "Holy Trinity" but nobody knew and one fellow said they were copying Christ Church Dublin. Whether true or not I cannot work out why Holy Trinity can be known as Christ Church. I hope somebody can enlighten me.
About the same level as one west country church wwhere they said they kept no Feast Sunday because they had never found out who St Saviour was 😳😩 Clergy there obviousiy had not been doing their job!!
This is a stretch, but I wonder if someone was mixing this up because they'd heard of the concept of "Feasts of the Lord" and in their system, at least, Trinity was one of them? Taking "Lord" here to mean "Christ"...
Alternately, there may have been something in the church history--a name change or another congregation absorbed.
Our parish consists of three churches, two medieval, dedicated respectively to St John the Baptist, St Margaret of Antioch and St Peter. Helps that all three patronal festivals fall in the summer so weather permitting annual out door festivities after a parish wide service on that saint's day. Incidentally for St Margaret's, the north aisle is fenced off as it is the private family chapel of the adjacent lords of the manor who have remained Catholic during and post the reformation.
My last church has a strange name. I'm positive that there will be no other church in the land with the same name!
It has nothing at all to do with the Christian faith, it is named after a hall/villa/mill - which used to stand on the plot. It was built in the 1960s.
It is called 'Thrum Hall Methodist Church'
In a textile context, "thrum" refers to the unwoven ends of a warp thread or a fringe of such ends left in a loom.
My own church is "United Church", giving the impression that it is either an Ecumenical Church or a merger of two other churches. It is neither, although we think of ourselves as ecumenical rather than Baptist. The original aim was to form such a church but that wasn't possible at that time - however we did have an Anglican curate attached to us in the early days (late 1960s).
If I recall correctly, it is not quite that. It is the remains of 1691 Heads of Agreement in London, which was an agreement to work together by major London-based Nonconformist divines regardless of traditional loyalties ( eg Congregationalism, Presbyterianism or Baptist). This fell to pieces less than fifty years later under the growing Unitarian influence, but not before the idea of a United Church had spread from the capital to the provinces. There it continued in various forms and places right up until 1972, with churches subscribing to these ideals often describing themselves as "United". Such churches frequently had membership of multiple denominational bodies.
I do not wish to imply all such churches dated from the 1690s, but the idea that such churches could exist and should exist did. I have come across several with this history, some within the URC and some outside of it.
My own church is "United Church", giving the impression that it is either an Ecumenical Church or a merger of two other churches. It is neither, although we think of ourselves as ecumenical rather than Baptist. The original aim was to form such a church but that wasn't possible at that time - however we did have an Anglican curate attached to us in the early days (late 1960s).
If I recall correctly, it is not quite that. It is the remains of 1691 Heads of Agreement in London, which was an agreement to work together by major London-based Nonconformist divines regardless of traditional loyalties ( eg Congregationalism, Presbyterianism or Baptist). This fell to pieces less than fifty years later under the growing Unitarian influence, but not before the idea of a United Church had spread from the capital to the provinces. There it continued in various forms and places right up until 1972, with churches subscribing to these ideals often describing themselves as "United". Such churches frequently had membership of multiple denominational bodies.
I do not wish to imply all such churches dated from the 1690s, but the idea that such churches could exist and should exist did. I have come across several with this history, some within the URC and some outside of it.
So a bit like the suggested electoral pact between the Greens and 'Your Party'?
No, really, hard to characterise English Nonconformity in the post-emancipation state. Denominations are really so 19th Century, individual congregations were fluid in allegiance, a mix between following the preference of the minister they called, who was popular at the time, some principled stances and what it cost to belong to any denominational body*. This was just part of the fluidity. Demonimational body is being used, as quite often these were fairly local, county association and such.
St Anne's Cathedral in Belfast (founded in 1904) is dedicated to the grandmother of Our Lord (the Cathedral Church of Thy Most Holy Granny)*, because it was built around (quite literally) a previous parish church dedicated to St Anne, and the previous church demolished inside it, which is why it's so huge. The original parish church (founded in 1776) was apparently dedicated to St Anne because the wife of the Marquis of Donegall (who owned the land) was called Anne.
* when we were in Belfast, we were part of a pub quiz team along with some of our friends from St George's parish church, which was just round the corner from the Cathedral. We called ourselves the Dragons and Grannies.
There is also the splendid Martinikerk in Franeker, a delightful little city in Friesland (one of the provinces of the Netherlands).
It's home to a large and active Reformed Church congregation, but in mediaeval times was known as St Martin - presumably the Bishop of that name, whose Feast Day is 11th November, celebrated with some enthusiasm in many parts of northern Europe.
The Martinikerk sends out its Sunday service on YouTube, and my word! can they sing !
Churches named for saints are not uncommon in the Netherlands, even though they may now be used by Protestant (Reformed Church) congregations. Offhand, I can think of the Lebuinuskerk in Deventer, named after St Lebuinus, an English monk who died at Deventer in about 775 AD, and is regarded as the Apostle of the Frisians, and of the Sint Laurenskerk in Rotterdam. The latter is named after St Lawrence, martyred in 258 AD.
Both of these are stunningly impressive buildings, despite (or perhaps because of) being stripped of their previous RC furnishings and fittings, and are much in demand as concert venues etc., as well as offering Christian worship. Their histories are not forgotten, but live on into the present day.
I often felt that Churches of Scotland sounded like Railway Stations: Partick West, Fraserburgh Central etc (I made those up though). I suspect that, with many recent closures, the suffixes have been lost (just like the Stations!).
Churches named for saints are not uncommon in the Netherlands, even though they may now be used by Protestant (Reformed Church) congregations. Offhand, I can think of the Lebuinuskerk in Deventer, named after St Lebuinus, an English monk who died at Deventer in about 775 AD, and is regarded as the Apostle of the Frisians, and of the Sint Laurenskerk in Rotterdam. The latter is named after St Lawrence, martyred in 258 AD.
Both of these are stunningly impressive buildings, despite (or perhaps because of) being stripped of their previous RC furnishings and fittings, and are much in demand as concert venues etc., as well as offering Christian worship. Their histories are not forgotten, but live on into the present day.
Both those churches have exceptionally fine organs.
Churches named for saints are not uncommon in the Netherlands, even though they may now be used by Protestant (Reformed Church) congregations. Offhand, I can think of the Lebuinuskerk in Deventer, named after St Lebuinus, an English monk who died at Deventer in about 775 AD, and is regarded as the Apostle of the Frisians, and of the Sint Laurenskerk in Rotterdam. The latter is named after St Lawrence, martyred in 258 AD.
Both of these are stunningly impressive buildings, despite (or perhaps because of) being stripped of their previous RC furnishings and fittings, and are much in demand as concert venues etc., as well as offering Christian worship. Their histories are not forgotten, but live on into the present day.
Both those churches have exceptionally fine organs.
As do many other churches in the Netherlands, I understand.
Tangent... An elderly Dutch friend - a powerful singer in his time - spent most of his last few weeks in the hospice listening to church organ music and singing from the Netherlands on Youtube. He was perfectly content at the end.
Tangent... An elderly Dutch friend - a powerful singer in his time - spent most of his last few weeks in the hospice listening to church organ music and singing from the Netherlands on Youtube. He was perfectly content at the end.
We sang
Ready the way - Curtis Stephan
There is a longing - Anne Quigley
Advent Communion Song - Bernadette Farrell
A voice cries out in the wilderness - Joncas
Plus the psalm, gospel acclamation and eucharistic acclamations as always.
Comments
In the Calendar of the Orthodox Church the feast of the 12 Apostles is on 30th June (following on from St Peter and St Paul on 29th).
There is also a commemoration of the 70 Apostles on 4th January.
In Bristol we had (until it closed a few years ago) a St George Baptist Church, but this was named for the district (the former Anglican parish of St George) rather than directly for the saint.
I wonder what the most popular Saint is in terms of the number of churches named for them. I've tried searching on the web but not found anything yet. Maybe this will be a pointless Christmas Holiday project.
According to their website, Quiricus was Julietta's three year old child.
Nice tangential titbit. Eleanor Glanville, who first identified the Glanville Fritillary as a separate species of butterfly, lived much of her life in the house adjoining. Her husband and later her oldest son contested her will, eventually successfully, on the grounds that being interested in butterflies was proof of insanity.
Close to where I grew up is Weeping Mary Missionary Baptist Church, a rural African American Baptist congregation. I know of a few other Weeping Mary Baptist churches in the American South; “Weeping Mary” is an African American spiritual*, and the concept of Weeping Mary carried significance for recently-freed enslaved people. (The community of Weeping Mary, Texas, founded by previously enslaved people, is another example.)
It’s also not unusual to find African American Baptist churches, African Methodist Episcopal churches, African Methodist Episcopal Zion churches or Christian Methodist Episcopal churches with names like St. James, St. Thomas, St. Stephen, St. Mary or similar. Often, however, the “James,” “Thomas,” “Stephen,” “Mary” or other name isn’t the biblical figure, but rather is an important person in the founding of that congregation.
* “If there’s anybody here like weepin’ Mary,
call upon your Jesus, and he’ll draw nigh.
If there’s anybody here like weepin’ Mary,
call upon your Jesus, and he’ll draw nigh.
Oh, Glory. Glory hallelujah.
Glory be to my Lord who rules on high.”
Anyone interested can click here to hear Harry T. Burleigh’s arrangement of “Weeping Mary.”
About the same level as one west country church where they said they kept no Feast Sunday because they had never found out who St Saviour was 😳😩 Clergy there obviousiy had not been doing their job!!
In the battle of the Johns, St John the Baptist beats out the Evangelist quite significantly.
Despite the efforts of the Victorian church builders of the parish I grew up in who decided that building a St J the E was a good idea in a parish that already had a St J the B!
Relevant to this conversation, they work best when the smaller groups are given a disproportionately large voice at the table when they are set up.
There was a pious, and very rich, family in Liverpool in the 19th century who paid for the building of several churches. I am sure their devotion to the patron saint was real, but conveniently it often happened that those names were also the names of the benefactor's daughters.
Yes, that's the one. I guessed it might be the Biblical Martha, but only because I couldn't think of any others.
@Baptist Trainfan Spurgeon would be an obvious choice for a Baptist Church. I've never seen one, I'll have to look out for them.
Yesterday I went to St Columba's and saw in front of the altar a display with a fishing net and fish (not real,of course). I asked someone if this was a new sort of Advent devotion and was reminded that NO - it was for a celebration of St Andrew's Day with a special Vespers Service the evening before.
Of course,it made absolute sense but not until it had been explained to me.
This is a stretch, but I wonder if someone was mixing this up because they'd heard of the concept of "Feasts of the Lord" and in their system, at least, Trinity was one of them? Taking "Lord" here to mean "Christ"...
Alternately, there may have been something in the church history--a name change or another congregation absorbed.
It has nothing at all to do with the Christian faith, it is named after a hall/villa/mill - which used to stand on the plot. It was built in the 1960s.
It is called 'Thrum Hall Methodist Church'
In a textile context, "thrum" refers to the unwoven ends of a warp thread or a fringe of such ends left in a loom.
If I recall correctly, it is not quite that. It is the remains of 1691 Heads of Agreement in London, which was an agreement to work together by major London-based Nonconformist divines regardless of traditional loyalties ( eg Congregationalism, Presbyterianism or Baptist). This fell to pieces less than fifty years later under the growing Unitarian influence, but not before the idea of a United Church had spread from the capital to the provinces. There it continued in various forms and places right up until 1972, with churches subscribing to these ideals often describing themselves as "United". Such churches frequently had membership of multiple denominational bodies.
I do not wish to imply all such churches dated from the 1690s, but the idea that such churches could exist and should exist did. I have come across several with this history, some within the URC and some outside of it.
🤣
So a bit like the suggested electoral pact between the Greens and 'Your Party'?
* when we were in Belfast, we were part of a pub quiz team along with some of our friends from St George's parish church, which was just round the corner from the Cathedral. We called ourselves the Dragons and Grannies.
"The most beautiful drink in the world..."
It's home to a large and active Reformed Church congregation, but in mediaeval times was known as St Martin - presumably the Bishop of that name, whose Feast Day is 11th November, celebrated with some enthusiasm in many parts of northern Europe.
The Martinikerk sends out its Sunday service on YouTube, and my word! can they sing !
Both of these are stunningly impressive buildings, despite (or perhaps because of) being stripped of their previous RC furnishings and fittings, and are much in demand as concert venues etc., as well as offering Christian worship. Their histories are not forgotten, but live on into the present day.
Both those churches have exceptionally fine organs.
As do many other churches in the Netherlands, I understand.
What a lovely way to go.
Indeed. I hope he found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BLm1fREwXI&list=RD2BLm1fREwXI&start_radio=1
It is, of course, the Dutch version of The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended.
Ready the way - Curtis Stephan
There is a longing - Anne Quigley
Advent Communion Song - Bernadette Farrell
A voice cries out in the wilderness - Joncas
Plus the psalm, gospel acclamation and eucharistic acclamations as always.