@Boogie's friend's friend sounds rather like my sister, who lives in France, and is anti-vaccine. President Macron has made it very difficult for anti-vaxxers there, and my sister and her husband are in virtual lockdown as a result.
I have asked my sister why they're anti-vaccine, but so far have been met with a resounding silence...
Now...medically-speaking, I think this is for the best. However for her personally, I've got sympathy. She truly believes that the vaccine is dangerous/deadly to everyone's health because it's not been tested enough.
Is it fair to ask what she would consider sufficient testing?
Clearly significantly more than 8b doses having been given.
We are just back from a week in Wales with friends and masks were much in evidence; go into an indoor place without one and you're challenged. Now with the new guidance I've noticed they're back round here, which is all to the good.
A few weeks ago Mr Nen and I met up with a friend we hadn't seen for a long time and during the course of the conversation it came out that she was not vaccinated and had no intention of being. Mr Nen and I had to pick up our dropped jaws and as tactfully as we could we asked her why. She's in her 70s and a retired nurse (so not unintelligent) but adamant that there has not been enough testing on the vaccines and they're only licensed for emergency use. (You're telling me this isn't an emergency?) She worries about the unknown effects the vaccines will be taking on us all in the years to come. A lot of the negative science about the vaccine has been hushed up (no, I don't know how she then came to hear of it...). She takes lots of supplements to boost her immune system so if she catches the virus it won't affect her badly. She was utterly unmoveable in her position. We found it extraordinary.
There was an arse on the train yesterday, en route to the Rangers game, who was drinking and unmasked, and who was talking loudly about his plans to go hillwalking once it snows, because he enjoys the challenge of hillwalking with crampons and an ice-axe.
Presumably if he can't wear a mask on a train, he won't be wearing a buff over his face when out in sub-zero temperatures.
Wouldn't it just be too bad if his nose got frostbitten and fell off?
Not entirely in jest, I'm afraid, at least these days.
I'm not looking forward to the winter health crisis, which will come despite what the government says, and I'm rather sad about not seeing my sister and other family members for a second Christmas running...
Still, I have a nice bottle of red WINE to hand, and will have a bowl of SOUP around soup six o'clock.
There was an arse on the train yesterday, en route to the Rangers game, who was drinking and unmasked ...
I hope the guard gave him short shrift: he was breaking not one rule but two, assuming trains in NEQland are operated by ScotRail, on whose network alcohol is currently banned.
In the Canterbury region, which includes Christchurch, 96% of those eligible have now had their first vaccine shot and 91% are fully vaccinated. We are fortunate not to have some of the challenges other regions have.
I've got a Scottish elderly parent refusing to take ventilation or mask precautions for indoor visits because 'what's meant for you won't go past you' ie. a fatalistic predestinarian approach that it doesn't matter what precautions are taken, if you're meant by God to catch Covid you will and if not, not.
I suffer very badly from anxiety and both myself and my partner are at heightened risk for bad outcomes from Covid so even a breakthrough infection could be serious, yet I can't get my mum to open a few windows a few inches so we can safely visit and put my mind at rest that everyone is reasonably safe (they are very well off - much more than us, not being able to pay the electric bill isn't an issue). They also have unmasked people popping in and out of the house, so that's also a risk.
I simply don't know what to do. Though we talk every week, refusing to visit seems cruel but visiting means putting me and my other half at risk for the lack of a few basic precautions that would make us both feel safe, and given that there are variants that can infect vaxxed people I don't think we're being that unreasonable in asking for clean safe air?
I just don't know what to do. Other family members are far more lax about precautions so this doesn't bother them, so I get blamed as unreasonable.
Do you think they might agree to lateral flow test before you visit ? And/or you could wear a FFP3 respirator mask when you visit - I think they are now available to the general public.
Sadly, my friend lost his battle with Covid19 and died overnight. He slipped away peacefully at 1:15am. His wife and two teenage sons were with him to the end.
Could you suggest meeting somewhere other than in their house? Assuming the Scottish climate allows for a more ventilated location, that is...
There's no such thing as bad weather, just inadequate clothing. (I suspect the originator of this claim has never tried to walk anywhere in a force 12).
I embroidered a cat nose and whiskers on one for my son. Wanted to do a vampire lips and fangs, but I didn't have enough time nor the right colors of thread. I do possess a gorgeous dragon mouth-and-fangs in full color, which was reproduced for sale by the artist.
I've worried about putting virus sized holes in masks by embroidering them, so although I have some spotted animal print fabric to make a mask (well, it's actually to make something else, but there will be enough left overs for a mask or two), I am still planning embroidery of eyes and whiskers in my head so that I don't reduce the effectiveness of the mask.
We've both tested negative on lateral flow tests today and yesterday after being coughed on, to both our reliefs.
I just don't know what to do. Other family members are far more lax about precautions so this doesn't bother them, so I get blamed as unreasonable.
That sucks, Louise. I don't have a good answer for how to deal with those kinds of people. You know that they're engaging in risky, unsafe behaviour, but one of two things will happen:
1. They don't get Covid, and so will feel vindicated in their laxity.
2. They do get Covid, at which point being told "I told you so" is the least of their problems.
I don't think you can do anything beyond sticking to your guns and keeping yourself and your family as reasonably safe as you can. It's the right thing to do, even if those around you think you're being silly.
Glad about the negative tests @Curiosity killed . My husband spent Friday night in a noisy pub with a load of mates shouting at each other and was very glad a lateral flow test he did today was negative.
So sorry to hear about your friend @Boogie
Glad about the negative tests @Curiosity killed . My husband spent Friday night in a noisy pub with a load of mates shouting at each other and was very glad a lateral flow test he did today was negative.
So sorry to hear about your friend @Boogie
I've not heard from FatherInCharge as to whether or not he's still encouraging the congregation to go Carol Singing ( a form of shouting ) in the local pub one Friday before Christmas...
I really do hope he sees sense, given that he's been so careful up till now.
Sadly, my friend lost his battle with Covid19 and died overnight. He slipped away peacefully at 1:15am. His wife and two teenage sons were with him to the end.
🕯
Oh shit. I thought it sounded hopeful, when you said he was off the ventilator. I'm very sorry.
My mate is down to lower oxygen in his gas mix, and is being woken up slowly. They use a tracheotomy to avoid the gagging response of a tube down the throat, when waking someone up who still needs mechanical ventilation. He has another infection - high temp etc - although has has 2 stable weeks up to now during which his lungs seem to have recovered a little (hence lower O2 requirement). Still praying, who knows.
Another friend-of-a-friend is dead - 60, healthy, un-vacc, may have been influenced by un-vacc priest who is something of a conspiracy nut. I have been able to respect the guy up to now, for various reasons; now I don't know quite how I'm going to deal with him. I expect he'll double-down. It wouldn't hurt to pray for Fr P.
Thanks everyone for kind words and advice. I'd hoped the lateral flow tests might be a way forward but wow! They are not disability-friendly for visually impaired people or people with difficulties with their hands or co-ordination. We'd avoided them up till now as we weren't seeing people face to face except rarely and outside. I'm not optimistic about persuading my parents to use something so fiddly, faffy and hard to see.
Are there any disability friendly alternatives that are easier to use?
Thanks so much for that link, I fear it doesn't exist -
We’re continuing to work with the Cabinet Office to get a more accessible lateral flow device
Given the mix of disabilities and other issues in the picture, I think we're out of luck on those for the folks. Still at least we've figured out how to do them now, if I do all the fiddly bits that you need working eyes for.
The newer kits that don't need you to poke a stick down your throat are a whole lot easier to use (new box of those arrived last week and opened yesterday)
Yes, I'm currently using one of those kits, and it's so much nicer to use. I need to collect an old kit from youthwork, sadly, although I can order nicer ones from the chemist.
How do you get those @Alan Cresswell and do you pay for them? We've been getting ours (free) from a van that's on our high street every fortnight and one lot we had were the nose-only ones. When I asked for those again I was told you can only get them online.
I request mine through the NHS website, box of 7 comes through the letter box a day or two later. If the next lot needs the back of the throat done again, it's less pleasant but I'll do what it says.
I've now got my appointment for Jag the Third along with the Jag Against Flu as they cut the 6 months to 3 since the John Prescott. So I'll all be dosed up to safely meet up with almost no one over the Christmas period.
In fact this very morning the other set I ordered arrived and indeed looking at them, they are much easier - the reagent comes already in the tube and they're nose only.
I've now got my appointment for Jag the Third along with the Jag Against Flu as they cut the 6 months to 3 since the John Prescott. So I'll all be dosed up to safely meet up with almost no one over the Christmas period.
Supersafe. I hope Christmas is also enjoyable.
Mine will be almost no one too, but the someones there are will be people I enjoy.
Urgh. My youngest has tested positive for covid. No symptoms at all, but I am getting so sick of the gov.uk forms. Ordered tests, ordered more tests, filled in contact tracing forms, answered the same questions and checked all our NHS numbers a hundred times. Some bits get you to sign up for an account, but then that doesn't link with other bits, so then you have to answer the same questions again.
Sorry. No one's dying or seriously ill, so I guess I can cope with being bored and annoyed.
Drat. As I may or may not have mentioned, on Sunday some bright thing in my Bible study told the room she had exposed the lot of us to COVID two weeks ago, when we were all in a room and I was the only one wearing a mask. (Amazingly, she began her story with two people in the room masked; it was everybody by the time she finished talking.)
Now I've got a cough. A nasty, nasty cough that only shows itself when I'm lying down at night. No other symptoms, and of course I'm triple vaxxed. This says to me "allergy," esp. given my health history--but you can never be sure, can you?
Tried to find a testing site that would have me today, no dice. No home tests available around here. Meh.
Must try again tomorrow.
(and not-so-bright young thing at my pain doctor's refused to convert today's visit into a video visit, although I told her I was sick (where's your brains, woman, don't you know there's a plague on?)--and only grudgingly rescheduled, for 9 am tomorrow! I get no pain med refills unless I show up in person, and I've very little left. Theoretically I could expose the whole damn office if things turned out badly...)
Just found this out tonight. A friend of mine had 14 people over for Thanksgiving, including his unvaccinated niece. Who spread the virus to seven people including my friend, though I gather he was symptomless or at least very mild. He's just finishing up his quarantine now.
@Louise Would it be possible for you to turn up at your mother's fully masked and ppossibly gloved as well, and point out firmly that YOU need to protect yourself from HER/THEM and that for the safety of your family you come like that or not at all? Gently doesn't seem to get through.
I am sorely tempted! My one ray of sunshine is that the Scottish government have specifically put it in their official advice to open windows when meeting indoors which gives me a chance I might get through to mum as my parents do tend to listen to official advice...
The mask is a Good Idea, but I think the gloves might be a bit OTT...
Mind you, meeting in an open-windowed Scottish room with a hoolie raging outside (not an unknown occurrence, I am told) isn't a particularly inviting scenario, though I can fully understand the reasoning behind the advice.
The mask is a Good Idea, but I think the gloves might be a bit OTT...
Mind you, meeting in an open-windowed Scottish room with a hoolie raging outside (not an unknown occurrence, I am told) isn't a particularly inviting scenario, though I can fully understand the reasoning behind the advice.
In fairness I probably have more experience than most of such situations. This is also probably one of many reasons that houses here set their windows way back into thick walls, keeping them sheltered from the worst of the wind.
Symptoms have suddenly stopped, which is lovely. Whatever it was appears to be over. As I have nowhere to be for the next few days, I expect I'll just get on with my work at home and stop chasing the test. (The trials people will certainly make me take one today for their own purposes, so if it was actually COVID, I will eventually find out.)
Comments
I have asked my sister why they're anti-vaccine, but so far have been met with a resounding silence...
We are just back from a week in Wales with friends and masks were much in evidence; go into an indoor place without one and you're challenged. Now with the new guidance I've noticed they're back round here, which is all to the good.
A few weeks ago Mr Nen and I met up with a friend we hadn't seen for a long time and during the course of the conversation it came out that she was not vaccinated and had no intention of being. Mr Nen and I had to pick up our dropped jaws and as tactfully as we could we asked her why. She's in her 70s and a retired nurse (so not unintelligent) but adamant that there has not been enough testing on the vaccines and they're only licensed for emergency use. (You're telling me this isn't an emergency?) She worries about the unknown effects the vaccines will be taking on us all in the years to come. A lot of the negative science about the vaccine has been hushed up (no, I don't know how she then came to hear of it...). She takes lots of supplements to boost her immune system so if she catches the virus it won't affect her badly. She was utterly unmoveable in her position. We found it extraordinary.
Presumably if he can't wear a mask on a train, he won't be wearing a buff over his face when out in sub-zero temperatures.
Wouldn't it just be too bad if his nose got frostbitten and fell off?
And is he lighting them?
No, just the Advent candles (well, he drags someone out of the congregation to do the actual igniting).
Not entirely in jest, I'm afraid, at least these days.
I'm not looking forward to the winter health crisis, which will come despite what the government says, and I'm rather sad about not seeing my sister and other family members for a second Christmas running...
Still, I have a nice bottle of red WINE to hand, and will have a bowl of SOUP around soup six o'clock.
I suffer very badly from anxiety and both myself and my partner are at heightened risk for bad outcomes from Covid so even a breakthrough infection could be serious, yet I can't get my mum to open a few windows a few inches so we can safely visit and put my mind at rest that everyone is reasonably safe (they are very well off - much more than us, not being able to pay the electric bill isn't an issue). They also have unmasked people popping in and out of the house, so that's also a risk.
I simply don't know what to do. Though we talk every week, refusing to visit seems cruel but visiting means putting me and my other half at risk for the lack of a few basic precautions that would make us both feel safe, and given that there are variants that can infect vaxxed people I don't think we're being that unreasonable in asking for clean safe air?
I just don't know what to do. Other family members are far more lax about precautions so this doesn't bother them, so I get blamed as unreasonable.
https://www.protectivemasksdirect.co.uk/protective-masks/ffp3-masks-respirators
🕯
Amen to that.
There's no such thing as bad weather, just inadequate clothing. (I suspect the originator of this claim has never tried to walk anywhere in a force 12).
I've worried about putting virus sized holes in masks by embroidering them, so although I have some spotted animal print fabric to make a mask (well, it's actually to make something else, but there will be enough left overs for a mask or two), I am still planning embroidery of eyes and whiskers in my head so that I don't reduce the effectiveness of the mask.
We've both tested negative on lateral flow tests today and yesterday after being coughed on, to both our reliefs.
😌
That sucks, Louise. I don't have a good answer for how to deal with those kinds of people. You know that they're engaging in risky, unsafe behaviour, but one of two things will happen:
1. They don't get Covid, and so will feel vindicated in their laxity.
2. They do get Covid, at which point being told "I told you so" is the least of their problems.
I don't think you can do anything beyond sticking to your guns and keeping yourself and your family as reasonably safe as you can. It's the right thing to do, even if those around you think you're being silly.
So sorry to hear about your friend @Boogie
I've not heard from FatherInCharge as to whether or not he's still encouraging the congregation to go Carol Singing ( a form of shouting
I really do hope he sees sense, given that he's been so careful up till now.
Oh shit. I thought it sounded hopeful, when you said he was off the ventilator. I'm very sorry.
My mate is down to lower oxygen in his gas mix, and is being woken up slowly. They use a tracheotomy to avoid the gagging response of a tube down the throat, when waking someone up who still needs mechanical ventilation. He has another infection - high temp etc - although has has 2 stable weeks up to now during which his lungs seem to have recovered a little (hence lower O2 requirement). Still praying, who knows.
Another friend-of-a-friend is dead - 60, healthy, un-vacc, may have been influenced by un-vacc priest who is something of a conspiracy nut. I have been able to respect the guy up to now, for various reasons; now I don't know quite how I'm going to deal with him. I expect he'll double-down. It wouldn't hurt to pray for Fr P.
Are there any disability friendly alternatives that are easier to use?
Given the mix of disabilities and other issues in the picture, I think we're out of luck on those for the folks. Still at least we've figured out how to do them now, if I do all the fiddly bits that you need working eyes for.
I've now got my appointment for Jag the Third along with the Jag Against Flu as they cut the 6 months to 3 since the John Prescott. So I'll all be dosed up to safely meet up with almost no one over the Christmas period.
Supersafe. I hope Christmas is also enjoyable.
Mine will be almost no one too, but the someones there are will be people I enjoy.
Sorry. No one's dying or seriously ill, so I guess I can cope with being bored and annoyed.
Now I've got a cough. A nasty, nasty cough that only shows itself when I'm lying down at night. No other symptoms, and of course I'm triple vaxxed. This says to me "allergy," esp. given my health history--but you can never be sure, can you?
Tried to find a testing site that would have me today, no dice. No home tests available around here. Meh.
Must try again tomorrow.
(and not-so-bright young thing at my pain doctor's refused to convert today's visit into a video visit, although I told her I was sick (where's your brains, woman, don't you know there's a plague on?)--and only grudgingly rescheduled, for 9 am tomorrow! I get no pain med refills unless I show up in person, and I've very little left. Theoretically I could expose the whole damn office if things turned out badly...)
Wishing you comfortable and gentle healing whatever the cause of your cough. ❤️🩹
Mind you, meeting in an open-windowed Scottish room with a hoolie raging outside (not an unknown occurrence, I am told) isn't a particularly inviting scenario, though I can fully understand the reasoning behind the advice.
Just meet in a room that's got windows down wind.
🤦♂️
In fairness I probably have more experience than most of such situations. This is also probably one of many reasons that houses here set their windows way back into thick walls, keeping them sheltered from the worst of the wind.