1. People who meet a lot of people (either travel a lot or go to very busy places) are more likely to come into contact with someone who's infected and thus become infected themselves
2. People who are infected who meet a lot of people are more likely to infect others and produce an outbreak which then traces back to the wide ranging person
[snip.
Classic example, was case zero in the ACT (Australia). As I posted above "THe first known case turns out to be a very sociable man who politely recorded all visits using the local check-in (track and trace) app. Turns out he was in a nightclub until 4.30 am on Sunday morning and a pentecostal church from 9am. That makes a lot of contacts to trace and test!"
Turns out that he was actually a bouncer a the nightclub, working there before he got any symtoms, so was a "close contact" of each of the hundreds of people who went there on that Saturday night. And as the clubbers were themselves young sociable people, meeting in a not very well ventilated basement, we now have a few dozen known cases and literally thousands of contacts all of whom are being told to get tested. Lockdown (more on Melbourne lines than on the lax Sydney model) consequently extended for a further 2 weeks.
First case of COVID in the community in Auckland for 180 days announced today. As it's likely to be the Delta variant I wouldn't be surprised if Auckland went into lockdown and the rest of us went to a higher Alert Level. Cabinet is meeting to decide the response.
Co-incidently, I had my second Pfizer jab yesterday.
Looking at other country’s Covid Coping Mechanisms with envy.
As someone with an elderly frail parent now in the vicinity, I am a little more invested in prevention of this dratted virus than I was.
First case of COVID in the community in Auckland for 180 days announced today. As it's likely to be the Delta variant I wouldn't be surprised if Auckland went into lockdown and the rest of us went to a higher Alert Level. Cabinet is meeting to decide the response.
Co-incidently, I had my second Pfizer jab yesterday.
V pleased to hear about jab and not pleased at all about your solitary case. 452 new cases in New South Wales today; not a few outside the Sydney/Newcastle/ Wollongong conurbation. Very angry about this; a flow-down consequence of the idiotic behaviour of the “demonstrators” who flooded Central Sydney 3 weeks ago, those who flouted restrictions to leave their local areas then lied to contact tracers and those who have spread lies about vaccinations.
We haven’t had a lot of deaths( so far) in the scheme of things but the hospitals are full and my colleagues on the wards are stretched to the max.
Finally the next fucking armchair expert who badmouths either the NSW premier or the chief medical officer will get a virtual knuckle sandwich.
Five cases known this morning, one of whom is a double vaccinated nurse at Auckland Hospital. Yesterday it was announced that the country will be in lockdown, initially for 3 days, while in Auckland and the Coromandel Peninsula it will initially be a week.
My lovely neighbour, who is herself recovering from an operation, offered me her caregiver to do any shopping I needed, but I'm holding off until tomorrow when a fine day is forecast.
A small group of neighbors wants to get together to play cards. Only those vaccinated are invited, everyone will wear masks and each table of four will distance from others. Windows and doors will be open. I am thinking of going as we are new to the mobile home park and I know few of my neighbors or really anyone in our new area. Other than outdoor church service with masks on Sunday and trips to the doctor that is the only time I leave the house. So I am a bit anxious but I think I will go.
Here in New York, under the guidelines I am eligible for a third shot now because I'm in active treatment for cancer. Going to have to look into where I can get one.
A small group of neighbors wants to get together to play cards. Only those vaccinated are invited, everyone will wear masks and each table of four will distance from others.
Sounds pretty low risk, and an activity that can't be reasonably done on zoom. I'd do it.
My church vestry seems to want to start meeting in person. I'm less enthusiastic about that - not because there's much risk (we're all vaccinated, and will wear masks), but because it works on zoom, so I don't see the motivation to do it in person. I suppose I'll go, but I'd like the proponents of "meet in person" to justify themselves.
I had my Pfizer #3 yesterday. Today it's a bit red and sore. New cases are at nearly 9000 per day and "serious cases" are doubling every fortnight. (Nearly 600 in total and Jerusalem hospitals are having to send people to the provinces). 1 million have had the 3rd jab now (a bit over 10% of the population)
Third jags??? I don't think that's even been considered here.
@Graven Image - I think you should go for the card game; your mental health is important, and I imagine meeting and getting to know your new neighbours would be rather good for it.
Actually, they are planning third jabs in the UK from September for over 50s and vulnerable https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57667987
They will be offered with routine flu jabs.
It's considered dubious to do third vaccines in rich countries while poor countries don't have many or any.
Oh, cut your passive-aggressive nonsense out.
If you consider it dubious, own your own opinion.
If you want to cite evidence for "being considered dubious" being a widespread opinion but want to be coy about whether you share it, go ahead and cite that evidence.
Well the world Health Organisation have been heavily critical of going for boosters with most of the world unprotected. I am fairly sure most of the world would also share the view that's it selfish and poor piece of prioritisation.
The WHO has been equally critical of first world countries vaccinating children when so many countries don't have the vaccines to cover vulnerable adults - Al Jazeera link from 4 June because it came up first, but I read/heard about the criticism in UK news around there.
I'm considering going back to watching our church services online. I've been wearing my mask again, and the best information I had was that most people at church had been vaccinated. Well, that's not quite true. An elderly lady with heart problems who sits near me said she isn't getting the vaccine because it hasn't been researched carefully enough. I wonder how many others are drinking the kool-aid.
Forgive me if I've already posted that.
I talked to my pastor today about a different matter and shared with her my concerns. When I told her about the lady above (no names), I could tell my pastor was really having to control her temper. She has really been encouraging everyone to follow CDC guidance. But, she said she supported 100% whatever I would decide is best.
So, that pretty much seals it. The virus rate of sickness and death here are way too high for me to risk deliberately being with unmasked, unvaccinated people.
I'm considering going back to watching our church services online. I've been wearing my mask again, and the best information I had was that most people at church had been vaccinated.
We're out of church - or any other gathered occasion - until further notice, along with severe restrictions on travel, and even on shopping. Funerals are limited to 10 people plus the person conducting the service, and even then the service can't be in a church; fortunately undertakers seem to have worked out how to have the services online so that more can "attend". AIUI, we can go to our usual supermarket as it's in the same local government area. We can't go to a larger centre, that's closer, as it's in a different area. Walking for exercise is allowed, fortunately, but while we are allowed buy a takeaway coffee at the half-way point, we are not allowed to sit and drink at the coffee shop. No restaurants allowed. All this and we're not in a high risk area. Basically, we're acting on the assumption that all but those few activities are banned.
It's considered dubious to do third vaccines in rich countries while poor countries don't have many or any.
"Dubious"?
Well, don't you just sound like someone in the Prefects' Study at Tea Time?
I have two neighbours who have now tested positive, even though they were both double vaccinated.
I have to opportunity to get a third vaccination and I'll take it as I am seriously immuno-compromised, having spent the last three years struggling with metastatic breast cancer.
If there was a way to pass "my" vaccination on to A Poor Palestinian ... even I might think about doing it.
I went to Low Mass this morning at Our Place, and was surprised (but pleased) to find that FatherInCharge was still observing all the Covid guidance from before *Freedom Day*.
Social distancing, facemasks (apart from when FInC or the lector were speaking), bowing to one another at The Peace, hand sanitising before receiving the Host, no common cup etc. etc.
All aided by the fact that we were using the temporary chapel set up in the otherwise vacant west end of the church, so there's plenty of space.
Our congregation also decided a couple of weeks back to continue with our practices; maintaining 2m physical distance, and the "bring your own" Communion. Even though regulations would permit us to return towards a more normal style of service. We would still need to be wearing a mask anyway, as that's the law, but even if we were allowed to remove them we probably wouldn't.
Our Place has increased the in-building capacity to 80 on a Sunday morning, but you still have to book in and there's the option of selecting distanced seating. We all have to wear masks apart from the people at the front, there's no coffee afterwards and you go outside if you want to chat at the end. I've been once since lockdown and will be going again this week (don't think I'll be going back to every week, there are other reasons for that), taking it on trust that everyone there (apart from the children) are double jabbed. I know there are no guarantees and if I knew for sure some people weren't I'd reconsider going at all.
Increasing our in-building capacity (20 at 2m spacing) wouldn't make any difference because the current 20 already exceeds the church membership and pre-pandemic congregation
A phone chat with a chap from Our Place, whose partner and he are *leading lights*, especially when it comes to organising social events, spooked me rather when he expressed glee at not having to wear a mask any more at church.
He and his SO both caught Ye Plague early on, and were quite poorly for a few weeks. SO has still not fully recovered, and can't taste the food she previously enjoyed a great deal!
AFAIK they've both been double-jabbed, but I really don't want to come into contact with them...although I appreciate that I may be over-reacting.
Well, that's not quite true. An elderly lady with heart problems who sits near me said she isn't getting the vaccine because it hasn't been researched carefully enough. I wonder how many others are drinking the kool-aid.
Can anyone explain to me why I shouldn't look at people who refuse to get the vaccine without good reason, but still go out in public, as murderers?
If you want to be an unvaccinated hermit who emerges once a week for a socially-distanced grocery shop, you're not putting other people at much risk, so I don't really care what you do. If you're associating with other people, you appear to be grossly and willfully negligent as regards carrying the plague around.
@Leorning Cniht exactly. Unfortunately, I live in an area where people take pride in proclaiming that they won't take the vaccine, the death rate is so small that it's not important, and other whack-a-doodle statements. They say "my body, my choice" which is so very ironic in a dead horsey type of way.
Yes, they are murdering people. If they were only putting themselves at risk, I would mourn for them (and secretly rejoice that they are taking themselves off the voting rolls), but they are callously putting so many others at risk. As you know.
A phone chat with a chap from Our Place, whose partner and he are *leading lights*, especially when it comes to organising social events, spooked me rather when he expressed glee at not having to wear a mask any more at church.
He and his SO both caught Ye Plague early on, and were quite poorly for a few weeks. SO has still not fully recovered, and can't taste the food she previously enjoyed a great deal!
AFAIK they've both been double-jabbed, but I really don't want to come into contact with them...although I appreciate that I may be over-reacting.
If they've had the illness and are double jabbed they're about as protected as they can be. Whether that means everyone else is safe from them...
Having said which, I ventured out into Freedom Land today to have lunch with 4 ex-crewmates at a village pub with a good reputation for food.
The pub was by no means crowded, there was ample space between tables, good ventilation, and no need to go to the bar to order or to pay. This was the first time I'd been to an eatery since before Lockdown One, so it was a pleasant if (at first) slightly daunting experience. As far as I could tell, no-one was wearing a mask, but, in all fairness, everyone was so well spread out IYSWIM that it didn't seem too scary or unsafe.
(BTW, all of us - aged between 60 and 72 - have been double-jabbed, and most of the rest of the diners were of about the same age group. No youngsters to be seen...).
Second Pfizer administered, despite absence of any record of his existence on the system, despite having submitted the registration form on 1st April and following up with an email on 26th May. They seemed to think it was his fault for not being registered, but have given him a phone number for use if the surgery still avoids registering him.
I spent part of the time he was there in All Dee next door. The shortage of tinned sardines, observed in Waitrose and Sains Breeze extends there as well.
I confess that a shortage of tinned sardines would bother me not a jot or tittle. I reckon the last time I ate a sardine was probably circa 1970, and if I never have another it'll be too soon.
My memory is of them mashed up on toast; they weren't in the utterly hellish category (that was reserved for porridge or overcooked frozen green beans), but they certainly weren't something I'd be in a hurry to eat again.
Our regional health officer was seen yesterday in a large crowd at a sports event, not wearing a mask, and getting close to many unmasked fans for selfie opportunities. No wonder no one around here masks up! Meanwhile 100s of people a day are testing positive for COVID.
Our regional health officer was seen yesterday in a large crowd at a sports event, not wearing a mask, and getting close to many unmasked fans for selfie opportunities.
It's not like sensible advice for how to behave is very complicated or confusing. And one might reasonably expect that a person in a position of responsibility, who could reasonably expect themselves to be photographed, filmed, and pointed out, would err on the side of taking extra precautions. (Wearing a belt and braces might be overkill, but it means you're not caught with your pants falling down.)
I've had no trouble getting tinned sardines, although it is a couple of weeks since I was looking for them, but I haven't been able to find pilchards for several weeks.
If you are after Glenryk pilchards in tomato sauce, Aldi's sardines ditto, when in stock, are very similar, and they had been in stock today locally. They are large for tinned sardines, and have not been sent from the Atlantic to Thailand for processing.
Another mob of “protesters” in the city today, just as 825 new cases in last 24 hrs announced.
Cops everywhere; not long home after doing a food drop and was stopped on the home stretch by the highway patrol. Fortunately the copper accepted my explanation. Probably just as well he didn’t query my “U=U” mask…..
And one might reasonably expect that a person in a position of responsibility, who could reasonably expect themselves to be photographed, filmed, and pointed out, would err on the side of taking extra precautions.
She was questioned about this at a press conference today and kept saying that it was fine, she was distant, everyone was vaccinated... but video evidence says otherwise! Modeling good precautions would go a long way towards setting a good example for everyone else.
Dragonlet 3 has turned into a walking not quite crawling case study for young children now getting all the diseases that normally come home from nursery in the winter.
Two weekends ago she had norovirus, and promptly gave it to the rest of us.
The last few days she has had a chesty cough, and given it mildly to me. We have both had a PCR test, which came back negative, so I think she has picked up RSV somewhere (not quite sure where though as nursery have been on holiday for two weeks). Thankfully she seems to be over the worst, as we are heading to the wilds beyond Arkland to see my parents next week.
Wfh does make it easier to not have to take sick days when feeling under the weather.
Dragonlet 3 has turned into a walking not quite crawling case study for young children now getting all the diseases that normally come home from nursery in the winter.
We've thankfully been spared the norovirus but Little Miss Feet has brought home a variety of interesting colds and flu-like bugs that sent us off for PCRs and variously led to raging fevers (me), chest infection (Mrs Feet), and just generally being a snot monster for a month (LMF).
Wfh does make it easier to not have to take sick days when feeling under the weather.
I'm no longer in the workplace but the Nenlets and their partners are. I really hope one of the benefits of flexible working that will continue is not having to take sick days when under the weather and also not taking one's bugs into work to share with colleagues. We've all done it, haven't we - take a couple of painkillers and carry on. Result: whole team goes down with bug.
The North East Man used to be really bad for battling into work whilst ill. I've had phone calls from his despairing colleagues begging me to keep him at home before he smites the whole department.
Covid has completely changed his mindset. I wish it had taken something less drastic than a worldwide pandemic, and that his mindset had changed a couple of decades ago.
I braved our local Co-Op today, as the roads leading to Tess Coe were gridlocked, I know not why.
Lots of big notices asking people to please keep their distance, wear a face-covering etc. etc., but fortunately a covidiot left just as I arrived, and the only other customer was wearing a face-mask.
However, the shelves were distinctly short of lots of commodities (too many to list), but apologetic notices informed us that this was due to nationwide shortages, and problems with delivery drivers being off sick. A combination of Brexit and Covid, I daresay.
They had everything I happened to be after, however, except bread rolls - but it's a bit late in the day for them, anyway. I have a good stock of tins of (Happy British) mackerel, sardines, and pilchards...
Comments
Classic example, was case zero in the ACT (Australia). As I posted above "THe first known case turns out to be a very sociable man who politely recorded all visits using the local check-in (track and trace) app. Turns out he was in a nightclub until 4.30 am on Sunday morning and a pentecostal church from 9am. That makes a lot of contacts to trace and test!"
Turns out that he was actually a bouncer a the nightclub, working there before he got any symtoms, so was a "close contact" of each of the hundreds of people who went there on that Saturday night. And as the clubbers were themselves young sociable people, meeting in a not very well ventilated basement, we now have a few dozen known cases and literally thousands of contacts all of whom are being told to get tested. Lockdown (more on Melbourne lines than on the lax Sydney model) consequently extended for a further 2 weeks.
Co-incidently, I had my second Pfizer jab yesterday.
As someone with an elderly frail parent now in the vicinity, I am a little more invested in prevention of this dratted virus than I was.
V pleased to hear about jab and not pleased at all about your solitary case. 452 new cases in New South Wales today; not a few outside the Sydney/Newcastle/ Wollongong conurbation. Very angry about this; a flow-down consequence of the idiotic behaviour of the “demonstrators” who flooded Central Sydney 3 weeks ago, those who flouted restrictions to leave their local areas then lied to contact tracers and those who have spread lies about vaccinations.
We haven’t had a lot of deaths( so far) in the scheme of things but the hospitals are full and my colleagues on the wards are stretched to the max.
Finally the next fucking armchair expert who badmouths either the NSW premier or the chief medical officer will get a virtual knuckle sandwich.
My lovely neighbour, who is herself recovering from an operation, offered me her caregiver to do any shopping I needed, but I'm holding off until tomorrow when a fine day is forecast.
Sounds pretty low risk, and an activity that can't be reasonably done on zoom. I'd do it.
My church vestry seems to want to start meeting in person. I'm less enthusiastic about that - not because there's much risk (we're all vaccinated, and will wear masks), but because it works on zoom, so I don't see the motivation to do it in person. I suppose I'll go, but I'd like the proponents of "meet in person" to justify themselves.
@Graven Image - I think you should go for the card game; your mental health is important, and I imagine meeting and getting to know your new neighbours would be rather good for it.
IANAD, YMMV, etc.
They will be offered with routine flu jabs.
Masks are mandatory in supermarkets now, one company has a no mask no groceries policy, while the other will serve people without masks.
(NZ has a supermarket duopoly.)
Oh, cut your passive-aggressive nonsense out.
If you consider it dubious, own your own opinion.
If you want to cite evidence for "being considered dubious" being a widespread opinion but want to be coy about whether you share it, go ahead and cite that evidence.
Forgive me if I've already posted that.
I talked to my pastor today about a different matter and shared with her my concerns. When I told her about the lady above (no names), I could tell my pastor was really having to control her temper. She has really been encouraging everyone to follow CDC guidance. But, she said she supported 100% whatever I would decide is best.
So, that pretty much seals it. The virus rate of sickness and death here are way too high for me to risk deliberately being with unmasked, unvaccinated people.
We're out of church - or any other gathered occasion - until further notice, along with severe restrictions on travel, and even on shopping. Funerals are limited to 10 people plus the person conducting the service, and even then the service can't be in a church; fortunately undertakers seem to have worked out how to have the services online so that more can "attend". AIUI, we can go to our usual supermarket as it's in the same local government area. We can't go to a larger centre, that's closer, as it's in a different area. Walking for exercise is allowed, fortunately, but while we are allowed buy a takeaway coffee at the half-way point, we are not allowed to sit and drink at the coffee shop. No restaurants allowed. All this and we're not in a high risk area. Basically, we're acting on the assumption that all but those few activities are banned.
"Dubious"?
Well, don't you just sound like someone in the Prefects' Study at Tea Time?
I have two neighbours who have now tested positive, even though they were both double vaccinated.
I have to opportunity to get a third vaccination and I'll take it as I am seriously immuno-compromised, having spent the last three years struggling with metastatic breast cancer.
If there was a way to pass "my" vaccination on to A Poor Palestinian ... even I might think about doing it.
I went to Low Mass this morning at Our Place, and was surprised (but pleased) to find that FatherInCharge was still observing all the Covid guidance from before *Freedom Day*.
Social distancing, facemasks (apart from when FInC or the lector were speaking), bowing to one another at The Peace, hand sanitising before receiving the Host, no common cup etc. etc.
All aided by the fact that we were using the temporary chapel set up in the otherwise vacant west end of the church, so there's plenty of space.
He and his SO both caught Ye Plague early on, and were quite poorly for a few weeks. SO has still not fully recovered, and can't taste the food she previously enjoyed a great deal!
AFAIK they've both been double-jabbed, but I really don't want to come into contact with them...although I appreciate that I may be over-reacting.
Can anyone explain to me why I shouldn't look at people who refuse to get the vaccine without good reason, but still go out in public, as murderers?
If you want to be an unvaccinated hermit who emerges once a week for a socially-distanced grocery shop, you're not putting other people at much risk, so I don't really care what you do. If you're associating with other people, you appear to be grossly and willfully negligent as regards carrying the plague around.
Yes, they are murdering people. If they were only putting themselves at risk, I would mourn for them (and secretly rejoice that they are taking themselves off the voting rolls), but they are callously putting so many others at risk. As you know.
I'm very sorry I've shown y'all my evil side.
And they’ll be begging for a shot when they’re gasping out their lives and it won’t give them a priority ride to the pearly gates.
If they've had the illness and are double jabbed they're about as protected as they can be. Whether that means everyone else is safe from them...
Friend's going for his second today.
Quite. That's my fear, although, as I said, I may be over-reacting.
The pub was by no means crowded, there was ample space between tables, good ventilation, and no need to go to the bar to order or to pay. This was the first time I'd been to an eatery since before Lockdown One, so it was a pleasant if (at first) slightly daunting experience. As far as I could tell, no-one was wearing a mask, but, in all fairness, everyone was so well spread out IYSWIM that it didn't seem too scary or unsafe.
(BTW, all of us - aged between 60 and 72 - have been double-jabbed, and most of the rest of the diners were of about the same age group. No youngsters to be seen...).
I spent part of the time he was there in All Dee next door. The shortage of tinned sardines, observed in Waitrose and Sains Breeze extends there as well.
You're welcome to my share.
I could happily eat them every day, preferably with chopped tomatoes and a hefty sprinkling of parsley.
There might be a riot in the queue for your sardines @Piglet !
The biggest change in my own LivinginCovidTimes will be starting those sticks-up-nose testing things.
Hey ho
New normal
It's not like sensible advice for how to behave is very complicated or confusing. And one might reasonably expect that a person in a position of responsibility, who could reasonably expect themselves to be photographed, filmed, and pointed out, would err on the side of taking extra precautions. (Wearing a belt and braces might be overkill, but it means you're not caught with your pants falling down.)
So why do so many such people screw this up?
The crumbs being in the toast, of course.
Cops everywhere; not long home after doing a food drop and was stopped on the home stretch by the highway patrol. Fortunately the copper accepted my explanation. Probably just as well he didn’t query my “U=U” mask…..
She was questioned about this at a press conference today and kept saying that it was fine, she was distant, everyone was vaccinated... but video evidence says otherwise! Modeling good precautions would go a long way towards setting a good example for everyone else.
Two weekends ago she had norovirus, and promptly gave it to the rest of us.
The last few days she has had a chesty cough, and given it mildly to me. We have both had a PCR test, which came back negative, so I think she has picked up RSV somewhere (not quite sure where though as nursery have been on holiday for two weeks). Thankfully she seems to be over the worst, as we are heading to the wilds beyond Arkland to see my parents next week.
Wfh does make it easier to not have to take sick days when feeling under the weather.
We've thankfully been spared the norovirus but Little Miss Feet has brought home a variety of interesting colds and flu-like bugs that sent us off for PCRs and variously led to raging fevers (me), chest infection (Mrs Feet), and just generally being a snot monster for a month (LMF).
Covid has completely changed his mindset. I wish it had taken something less drastic than a worldwide pandemic, and that his mindset had changed a couple of decades ago.
Lots of big notices asking people to please keep their distance, wear a face-covering etc. etc., but fortunately a covidiot left just as I arrived, and the only other customer was wearing a face-mask.
However, the shelves were distinctly short of lots of commodities (too many to list), but apologetic notices informed us that this was due to nationwide shortages, and problems with delivery drivers being off sick. A combination of Brexit and Covid, I daresay.
They had everything I happened to be after, however, except bread rolls - but it's a bit late in the day for them, anyway. I have a good stock of tins of (Happy British) mackerel, sardines, and pilchards...