I was about to comment on @Nick Tamen's flagons, but @TheOrganist beat me to it. And many thanks for the information on Mr March @Gramps49 .
As for jugs, here is one. Jug
Specifically one of the aforementioned Pyrex measuring type, which are essential for any cooking. (This is my first attempt at including a link on my phone, and I've clearly bolloxed it up. Could a kindly Host redeem the situation please?)
are none of you fans of the excellent "something rhymes with purple" podcast, with Susie Dent (OED and Countdown dictionary corner) and Giles Brandreth?
30 minutes of chat weekly about the use and origins of words (usually in British English), I really recommend it (though warning, they don't hold back in discussions of rude words also).
If you were, you might be "schoolboy sniggering" like me about all these mentions of growlers.
That's what a jug means to me. Specifically, a 'jug' is anything that shape with a handle and a pouring lip and a 'measuring jug' is one marked with mils, pints etc as in the picture. And definitely 'snigger' not 'snicker'. A snicker is a type of chocolate bar with nuts inside it.
That's what a jug means to me. Specifically, a 'jug' is anything that shape with a handle and a pouring lip and a 'measuring jug' is one marked with mils, pints etc as in the picture. And definitely 'snigger' not 'snicker'. A snicker is a type of chocolate bar with nuts inside it.
The chocolate bar would be a Snickers, not a Snicker.
And though this thread is full of fascinating differences, the jug difference is really interesting to me, since the wide mouth and pouring lip are what would make a container for liquid something other than a jug here.
You've not had a Toad in the Hole for decades? What's wrong with you man?
I've had Toad in the Hole a lot more recently than that, and a decent Toad is pretty hard to come by here.
Since we live in the US, we have measuring cups (because American recipes, and most of the things we cook are the sort where either "close enough" is good enough, or you can see how it's going and adjust a bit on the fly. But we obviously also own digital kitchen scales (which read in pounds and ounces as well as grammes and kilogrammes - I don't think anyone makes a digital scale that doesn't switch), and I weigh ingredients for anything that wants to be accurate.
I also still have the UK plastic measuring jug (with volume markings in pints and ml, as well as weight markings for flour (in grammes and ounces)) that I've had since I was a student.
The Online Etymology Dictionary says that the first recorded use in this sense is from 1920, that it was Australian slang, and that it’s short for “milk jugs.”
I get the feeling that the Easter Bunny is made more of in the States than in Britain. It seems to have a distinct personality, as far as I can make it, while over here we get chocolate rabbits and that's it. Or am I out of touch with my own culture again?
It's definitely coming over here, particularly targeting the 'young enough to believe in Santa' age group, and those of an age to enjoy Easter egg hunts. It's also big enough in New Zealand the PM reassured children that the Easter Bunny is an essential worker, albeit he might not have the same access to chocolate this year.
I call the plastic containers milk comes in bottles, just like the glass ones the milkman would deliver.
Years ago a friend from Iran introduced me to a useful trick. If forced back onto UHT milk (1) never use the full-fat variety, and (2) rather than using it neat, add the UHT to at least a tablespoonful of "real" milk. It doesn't totally disguise the taste but makes it much pleasanter.
Here is a question I hope our august participants will address:
Which is "proper" English:
"I am visiting Fred"?
or
"I am visiting with Fred"?
I will check your answers later.
I always understood the second to be a borrowing from German where you besuchen mitt. In English English, it would mean the two of us - Fred and me - were doing the visiting.
I always understood the second to be a borrowing from German where you besuchen mitt. In English English, it would mean the two of us - Fred and me - were doing the visiting.
"Visit" is also used in (at least some of) the US in a way that I've never heard in the UK. I hear a number of my American friends say something like "we're going to stay and visit for a bit" meaning that they are going to remain where they are and chat with the person they're sitting with.
I don't think the UK uses this sense of visit to mean "chat / spend time with" - in the UK, visiting someone is the act of going to their house (often to stay for one or more nights). You can't visit someone at a restaurant, or in a church hall (unless there's a fete and they're running a stall, in which case you might visit their stall).
If the good Lord hadn't wanted us to borrow from German ... Oh, wait ...
Meanwhile, just as I'm about to start making a nice Welsh Rarebit for our tea (or 'us tea' as they say in Yorkshire), my daughter announces that she wants to do herself a 'ready-meal' as a treat. I dunno, da yoof today ...
Turns out it's only Toad in the Hole!
Heck, if I knew she liked that I'd have made us some ...
If you’re visiting Fred, I know who you’re visiting. If you’re visiting with Fred, I know who your companion is, but not who the two of you are visiting?
In American English how would you say what a Brit could mean by saying, “I am visiting Fred with Bill.”?
In American English how would you say what a Brit could mean by saying, “I am visiting Fred with Bill.”?
I'm not American, although I live here, and I'm not certain that "visit with" is uniformly used throughout the country. But if you want to use that construction, then "Bill and I are visiting with Fred" seems fairly clear.
But (in my UK English) I'd probably say "Bill and I are visiting Fred". Your construction implies to me that Bill is being brought along rather than being a first-class participant in the visit. Perhaps Bill is a pet donkey, or a gardening tool, or something.
I call the plastic containers milk comes in bottles, just like the glass ones the milkman would deliver
A profession that has all but died in the United States, though there has been somewhat of a resurgence because of the pandemic.
We've had a local dairy, Smith Brothers, in constant service delivering milk since WW2 at least. At one time we subscribed to their service, as keeping milk in the house with 4-1/7 kids was a rum go.
Here is a question I hope our august participants will address:
Which is "proper" English:
"I am visiting Fred"?
or
"I am visiting with Fred"?
I will check your answers later.
They mean two different things. To visit someone is to go to where they are. "Visiting with" means sitting around chatting. One can visit Fred without visiting with him.
When I moved from the UK to the US and worked in a coffee shop, I got in trouble for referring to the metal containers that we steamed milk in as 'jugs'. I was taken aside and told that this was slang for the female anatomy, and I should use 'pitchers'.
They also didn't like me calling whole milk 'full-fat' - you can't use the word fat! I think 'full-cream' was ok though.
They mean two different things. To visit someone is to go to where they are. "Visiting with" means sitting around chatting. One can visit Fred without visiting with him.
I agree. I can visit with a friend over lunch at a restaurant (well, I used to be able to). By if I drop by her house, I'm visiting her.
They mean two different things. To visit someone is to go to where they are. "Visiting with" means sitting around chatting. One can visit Fred without visiting with him.
I agree. I can visit with a friend over lunch at a restaurant (well, I used to be able to). By if I drop by her house, I'm visiting her.
You meet with a friend for lunch. Unless she lives in the restaurant.
Here is a question I hope our august participants will address:
Which is "proper" English:
"I am visiting Fred"?
or
"I am visiting with Fred"?
I will check your answers later.
I always understood the second to be a borrowing from German where you besuchen mitt. In English English, it would mean the two of us - Fred and me - were doing the visiting.
I'd have said:
it would mean the two of us - Fred and I - were doing the visiting.
In American English how would you say what a Brit could mean by saying, “I am visiting Fred with Bill.”?
I'm not American, although I live here, and I'm not certain that "visit with" is uniformly used throughout the country. But if you want to use that construction, then "Bill and I are visiting with Fred" seems fairly clear.
But (in my UK English) I'd probably say "Bill and I are visiting Fred". Your construction implies to me that Bill is being brought along rather than being a first-class participant in the visit. Perhaps Bill is a pet donkey, or a gardening tool, or something.
I agree with your assessment that Bill’s role is ancillary. In my mind it was something like a pastoral visit between Fred and me with Bill present as a trainee, or possibly an observer.
"I am visiting with Fred" = Fred and me are going together to visit other people, probably with slightly intentional overtones, a bit like JWs. Ordinary people visit friends. Clergy go visiting.
The sense that is not used in BrEnglish is 'visiting' to mean just casually conversing with someone, e.g. on neutral ground. In BrEnglish, 'visiting' = going to call on someone, usually where they live.
Yes. The North American usage doesn't make any sense in this instance. I can think of other Americanisms or Canadianisms that make more sense than British expressions but this one is beyond me. It makes no sense whatsoever.
If I visit with someone I'm taking someone with me for Pete's sake.
Yes. The North American usage doesn't make any sense in this instance. I can think of other Americanisms or Canadianisms that make more sense than British expressions but this one is beyond me. It makes no sense whatsoever.
“Visit with” makes no less sense than “talk with” or “chat with.”
Trying to think through it, I think more people here (North Carolina) would say “I’m going to visit with Fred” or “I’m going to go pay Fred a visit” than would say “I’m going to visit Fred.” If someone is going with me, then “Bill and I are going to visit with Fred/pay Fred a visit.”
Though the reality is probably most people would say “I’m going see Fred” or “We’re going over to Fred’s.”
And here, I think “visit” as a verb would imply going to Fred’s home, not somewhere like a restaurant. As a noun, on the other hand, “getting in a good visit” can certainly happen anywhere.
Mind you, if I were to lapse into Wenglish nothing I'd write would make any sense - or even less sense, should I say.
'What did you 'ave nice for your dinner?'
'Do you want me to give it you now or give it to you again?'
'Whose coat is that jacket hanging on the door by there?'
'Where by is that to?'
'Where to do you live?'
'Blue do suit you but the pink I do rather.'
'I'll be there now in a minute.'
'Who is his name?'
And so on.
Meanwhile, is it just me but as well as differences in usage and terminology, am I the only one here who suspects they can 'hear' some Shipmates' accents in my head as I read what they've written?
I might be wrong but I've got a pretty good idea of what I think Gramps49 and Lamb Chopped might sound like in real life - Mousethief too, perhaps, in a way that I don't with some of the British posters, other than those who clearly have some kind of strong regional accent - such as Glaswegian or Yorkshire.
Of course, it's all in my head but I do think there are clues and indications in the way some people write, and it's not because they write like Rabbie Burns ...
People here might say "I'm going to bother Fred", but if they've got a thing for Fred (people don't fancy one another here), bothering him means they also want to jump him (which means seduce or otherwise have sex with him. Bothering Fred is more like going to see if he's interested. Jumping him means being pretty serious about bumping him and likely throwing yourself at him. Which all means about the same as "shagging", which isn't a word here, except we know if from media. The really funny one, which may not be actual UK usage(??) is someone saying "I'll knock you up", which only has the meaning of making someone pregnant. No-one rings anyone either here, they call or phone.
I learned a new meaning for crumpet today, though.
It's better to toast them under the grill as the sides need different timing. Plain butter's best but some like honey or golden syrup.
Try them with Marmite!
Marmite is not welcome in this house - food of Satan. We do enjoy Vegemite on toast but not on crumpets.
Having read almost the entire thread in a sitting and wished to comment on so many moments, I need to point out that:
*Marmite (UK): liquid and yummy, a little similar to Bovril, certainly in texture. Sold in NZ as "Our Mate" which is excruciating. (See intellectual property reference below).
*Vegemite: (OZ and NZ). Nom nom nom but not as nom nom nom as UK Marmite. Causes heartburn to some. Paste rather than liquid. Did I mention nom nom nom. My staple lunch almost every day, served with rip our sox off strong cheese on bread or toast. Heartburn results.
* Marmite (OZ and NZ). Nasty sugary salty leathery stuff that used to be sold in a "tumbler"-type jar with a lid that didn't fit, hence accentuating the nasty leathery propensities in a boarding school dining room. The name was stolen by Sanitarium-So-Called-Health-Foods and copyrighted for NZ/OZ despite have SFA to do with the yummy British original. Even the colour is different. Agreed that its is a work of Satan. Intellectual property law then forced real Marmite (UK) to rebadge in OZ/NZ as Our Mate.
I hadn't noticed that change - a jar of Vegemite lasts a fair while and when replacements are bought it's just a matter of reaching for the yellow label.
People here might say "I'm going to bother Fred", but if they've got a thing for Fred (people don't fancy one another here), bothering him means they also want to jump him (which means seduce or otherwise have sex with him.
Gives a whole new dimension to the expression 'God botherers'.
Having read almost the entire thread in a sitting and wished to comment on so many moments, I need to point out that:
*Marmite (UK): liquid and yummy, a little similar to Bovril, certainly in texture. Sold in NZ as "Our Mate" which is excruciating. (See intellectual property reference below).
I wouldn't call UK Marmite liquid, it is quite thick and sticky.
@Nick Tamen: '"Visit with” makes no less sense than “talk with” or “chat with.”'
Except we'd normally say "talk to", or "I had a chat with".
Here, “talk to” could well mean something slightly different than “talk with.” “Talk with” can carry the implication that we shared in conversation. “Talk to” can carry the implication that I did the talking and Fred did the listening, perhaps on a specific subject.
Comments
As for jugs, here is one. Jug
Specifically one of the aforementioned Pyrex measuring type, which are essential for any cooking. (This is my first attempt at including a link on my phone, and I've clearly bolloxed it up. Could a kindly Host redeem the situation please?)
[link redeemed by kindly HH!]
We'd say "snickering" not sniggering.
Meanwhile, I rarely hear “flagon” used here, except to refer to the container from which sacramental wine is poured into the chalice at the Eucharist.
And though this thread is full of fascinating differences, the jug difference is really interesting to me, since the wide mouth and pouring lip are what would make a container for liquid something other than a jug here.
Since we live in the US, we have measuring cups (because American recipes, and most of the things we cook are the sort where either "close enough" is good enough, or you can see how it's going and adjust a bit on the fly. But we obviously also own digital kitchen scales (which read in pounds and ounces as well as grammes and kilogrammes - I don't think anyone makes a digital scale that doesn't switch), and I weigh ingredients for anything that wants to be accurate.
I also still have the UK plastic measuring jug (with volume markings in pints and ml, as well as weight markings for flour (in grammes and ounces)) that I've had since I was a student.
It's definitely coming over here, particularly targeting the 'young enough to believe in Santa' age group, and those of an age to enjoy Easter egg hunts. It's also big enough in New Zealand the PM reassured children that the Easter Bunny is an essential worker, albeit he might not have the same access to chocolate this year.
I call the plastic containers milk comes in bottles, just like the glass ones the milkman would deliver.
A profession that has all but died in the United States, though there has been somewhat of a resurgence because of the pandemic.
I wouldn't call it a bottle if it looks like this
although I suppose I would if it looked like this Basically I guess for me a bottle doesn't have a handle!
But nearly all those we see in UK are the first type, for pasteurised milk. In Europe the second type is more common, and tends to be UHT milk (yuk)
Years ago a friend from Iran introduced me to a useful trick. If forced back onto UHT milk (1) never use the full-fat variety, and (2) rather than using it neat, add the UHT to at least a tablespoonful of "real" milk. It doesn't totally disguise the taste but makes it much pleasanter.
Which is "proper" English:
"I am visiting Fred"?
or
"I am visiting with Fred"?
I will check your answers later.
And we eat toad in the hole (with Quorn sausages and some chunks of sweet potato in it).
I always understood the second to be a borrowing from German where you besuchen mitt. In English English, it would mean the two of us - Fred and me - were doing the visiting.
"Visit" is also used in (at least some of) the US in a way that I've never heard in the UK. I hear a number of my American friends say something like "we're going to stay and visit for a bit" meaning that they are going to remain where they are and chat with the person they're sitting with.
I don't think the UK uses this sense of visit to mean "chat / spend time with" - in the UK, visiting someone is the act of going to their house (often to stay for one or more nights). You can't visit someone at a restaurant, or in a church hall (unless there's a fete and they're running a stall, in which case you might visit their stall).
If the good Lord hadn't wanted us to borrow from German ... Oh, wait ...
Meanwhile, just as I'm about to start making a nice Welsh Rarebit for our tea (or 'us tea' as they say in Yorkshire), my daughter announces that she wants to do herself a 'ready-meal' as a treat. I dunno, da yoof today ...
Turns out it's only Toad in the Hole!
Heck, if I knew she liked that I'd have made us some ...
In American English how would you say what a Brit could mean by saying, “I am visiting Fred with Bill.”?
I'm not American, although I live here, and I'm not certain that "visit with" is uniformly used throughout the country. But if you want to use that construction, then "Bill and I are visiting with Fred" seems fairly clear.
But (in my UK English) I'd probably say "Bill and I are visiting Fred". Your construction implies to me that Bill is being brought along rather than being a first-class participant in the visit. Perhaps Bill is a pet donkey, or a gardening tool, or something.
Cram.
We've had a local dairy, Smith Brothers, in constant service delivering milk since WW2 at least. At one time we subscribed to their service, as keeping milk in the house with 4-1/7 kids was a rum go.
They mean two different things. To visit someone is to go to where they are. "Visiting with" means sitting around chatting. One can visit Fred without visiting with him.
They also didn't like me calling whole milk 'full-fat' - you can't use the word fat! I think 'full-cream' was ok though.
You meet with a friend for lunch. Unless she lives in the restaurant.
I'd have said:
it would mean the two of us - Fred and I - were doing the visiting.
-visiting with Fred: means to catch up on what's happened with Fred since I last saw him.
-visiting Fred: means we're just hanging out together
"I am visiting Fred" = I am going to see Fred.
"I am visiting with Fred" = Fred and me are going together to visit other people, probably with slightly intentional overtones, a bit like JWs. Ordinary people visit friends. Clergy go visiting.
The sense that is not used in BrEnglish is 'visiting' to mean just casually conversing with someone, e.g. on neutral ground. In BrEnglish, 'visiting' = going to call on someone, usually where they live.
If I visit with someone I'm taking someone with me for Pete's sake.
Trying to think through it, I think more people here (North Carolina) would say “I’m going to visit with Fred” or “I’m going to go pay Fred a visit” than would say “I’m going to visit Fred.” If someone is going with me, then “Bill and I are going to visit with Fred/pay Fred a visit.”
Though the reality is probably most people would say “I’m going see Fred” or “We’re going over to Fred’s.”
And here, I think “visit” as a verb would imply going to Fred’s home, not somewhere like a restaurant. As a noun, on the other hand, “getting in a good visit” can certainly happen anywhere.
'What did you 'ave nice for your dinner?'
'Do you want me to give it you now or give it to you again?'
'Whose coat is that jacket hanging on the door by there?'
'Where by is that to?'
'Where to do you live?'
'Blue do suit you but the pink I do rather.'
'I'll be there now in a minute.'
'Who is his name?'
And so on.
Meanwhile, is it just me but as well as differences in usage and terminology, am I the only one here who suspects they can 'hear' some Shipmates' accents in my head as I read what they've written?
I might be wrong but I've got a pretty good idea of what I think Gramps49 and Lamb Chopped might sound like in real life - Mousethief too, perhaps, in a way that I don't with some of the British posters, other than those who clearly have some kind of strong regional accent - such as Glaswegian or Yorkshire.
Of course, it's all in my head but I do think there are clues and indications in the way some people write, and it's not because they write like Rabbie Burns ...
Having read almost the entire thread in a sitting and wished to comment on so many moments, I need to point out that:
*Marmite (UK): liquid and yummy, a little similar to Bovril, certainly in texture. Sold in NZ as "Our Mate" which is excruciating. (See intellectual property reference below).
*Vegemite: (OZ and NZ). Nom nom nom but not as nom nom nom as UK Marmite. Causes heartburn to some. Paste rather than liquid. Did I mention nom nom nom. My staple lunch almost every day, served with rip our sox off strong cheese on bread or toast. Heartburn results.
* Marmite (OZ and NZ). Nasty sugary salty leathery stuff that used to be sold in a "tumbler"-type jar with a lid that didn't fit, hence accentuating the nasty leathery propensities in a boarding school dining room. The name was stolen by Sanitarium-So-Called-Health-Foods and copyrighted for NZ/OZ despite have SFA to do with the yummy British original. Even the colour is different. Agreed that its is a work of Satan. Intellectual property law then forced real Marmite (UK) to rebadge in OZ/NZ as Our Mate.
‘I am visiting the museum with Fred’ is also correct.
‘I am visiting with Fred’ is wrong as it’s missing a location. Where are you both visiting?
Gives a whole new dimension to the expression 'God botherers'.
And makes a less than minced oath of Botheration!
I wouldn't call UK Marmite liquid, it is quite thick and sticky.
Except we'd normally say "talk to", or "I had a chat with".
Also 'said' used to have ominous implications, as in 'There was enough said at our Edie's wedding...'