And, we've got a succession of senior Reform members on TV trying to defend him, and in some cases not even knowing what they are trying to defend. Jenrick this morning repeating the "there's nothing wrong with staying with a friend" line - when the question isn't was it OK for him to stay with a friend, but should that have been declared to the Parliamentary authorities? The register of members interests isn't there to record wrong-doing but to maintain transparency about who provides support for MPs, including in the year prior to being elected regardless of when a decision to stand for election was made, in any form.
It seems the "purely personal gift" category of interests is prone to be abused, and Farage isn't the only potential abuser of that. It might be simpler to require everything is declared, and the Parliamentary standards officers can decide if something claimed as a personal gift is or isn't and not include personal gifts on the register. When something like this blows up the response is simple, "it was declared and the PSO decided it was a personal gift and didn't include it on the register".
The roots of the beliefs of those self-declared Christians who are attracted to Farage are to be found in the prosperity gospel and the individualised gospel. Those seem to enable folks to separate themselves from the needs of the poor and disadvantaged. Issues of justice, not charity.
The roots of the beliefs of those self-declared Christians who are attracted to Farage are to be found in the prosperity gospel and the individualised gospel. Those seem to enable folks to separate themselves from the needs of the poor and disadvantaged. Issues of justice, not charity.
I'd have thought some of it was just old-fashioned Erastianism. If that's the right word for Christianity is Englishness.
The roots of the beliefs of those self-declared Christians who are attracted to Farage are to be found in the prosperity gospel and the individualised gospel. Those seem to enable folks to separate themselves from the needs of the poor and disadvantaged. Issues of justice, not charity.
I'd have thought some of it was just old-fashioned Erastianism. If that's the right word for Christianity is Englishness.
Phyletism rather than Erastianism ? (You could argue that the CofE is inherently Erastian - as in theory the state holds ultimate authority over the church).
Thing is, not all Christians who support Reform are Anglicans.
So, yes, more likely to be Phyletism, and other factors besides.
Also there are Welsh and Scottish Reform voters and supporters so it's not a purely English thing.
If(and I'm saying if) the link between sectarianism and politics has weakened in the mainland UK in the same way it has in North America(*), I'd think there is unlikely to be any one particular persuasion identified with Reform, beyond protecting a vaguely conceived idea of Christian culture from a vaguely conceived idea of a foreign non-Christian threat.
(*) As I'm sure I've mentioned before(thus is the reader forewarned), in Canada anti-French sentiment was historically connected to militant protestantism and literal Orangism, but by the time I was becoming aware of the relevant issues in western Canada 1980s, among the local anti-French contingent(and their name was Legion), RCs were probably as well-represented as any other confession. It was the right-wing Catholic Bill Vander Zalm who introduced the precise phrase "French on our cereal boxes" into the political vocabulary, and to the extent people attached any religious connection to that at all, it was with Vander Zalm's conservative CATHOLIC positions, eg. left-wing opponents of Vander Zalm disliked him for trashing bilingualism and trying to impose Catholic morality over the abortion laws.
Back to the UK situation, a few years back I saw an anti-brexiteer attack the Catholic Michael Gove for praising Henry VIII as an English hero, on the grounds of "Doesn't he realize how Henry viciously persecuted Catholics?" But I suspect that critique showed an unawareness of how widely conservative Catholics have been grandfathered into the self-perceived established-faith once represented by Anglicanism, with Muslims and other mostly-racialized creeds taking the place of the foreign-linked Catholic menace.
Thing is, not all Christians who support Reform are Anglicans.
So, yes, more likely to be Phyletism, and other factors besides.
Also there are Welsh and Scottish Reform voters and supporters so it's not a purely English thing.
I would note that while Reform get many votes in Wales, most are votes against other parties such as Labour and Plaid Cymru. In many parts of Wales the Conservative vote has collapsed.
Is the concept of Phyletism broad enough to include eg. a Christmas-and-Easter-only attendee who otherwise never prays and couldn't explain the basic theology of his own denomination, or even that of Christianity as a whole, but says stuff like "This is a Christian country, and it really pisses me off the way the stores won't put up nativity scenes anymore just to avoid offending immigrants"?
Because that's kinda what I assume to be the average Christian who supports Reform UK, based largely on my second-hand knowledge of British culture plus extrapolation from elsewhere.
@sionisais that applies to the Reform vote in England too, and Scotland also I suspect.
Reform have succeeded in convincing many voters, and also people who don't generally vote, that everything is bust and they are the only ones who can fix it.
Whatever it is, the thugs outside a hotel in town on Tuesday night were using "Christian" to mean something very different to any definition of the word I'd expect to hear from inside a church. I've never heard a sermon even suggest that "Christian" is compatible with hating anyone.
Whatever it is, the thugs outside a hotel in town on Tuesday night were using "Christian" to mean something very different to any definition of the word I'd expect to hear from inside a church. I've never heard a sermon even suggest that "Christian" is compatible with hating anyone.
They probably want to see some “smiting” and “putting to the sword” as per OT.
One of our local knuckledraggers, who claims to be extremely Protestant, posted a clip of a R.C. Corpus Christi procession on his social media under the impression that it was an anti-Muslim rally.
One of our local knuckledraggers, who claims to be extremely Protestant, posted a clip of a R.C. Corpus Christi procession on his social media under the impression that it was an anti-Muslim rally.
My wild-guess would be someone else of vaguely Christian identification had posted the photo with a jingoistic caption like "These are true British Christians, exactly the people Starmer wants to lock up!", and your self-styled protestant militant saw it and, not recognizing the symbolism on display, assumed the march was specifically to protest against Muslims.
The knuckle-draggers are one thing but I've come across very devout Christians of various traditions who buy into the Reform and Restore narratives.
I'm not talking about extreme Protestant fundamentalists or ultra-traditionalist or wannabe Orthodox either. Although they have all shared a conservative approach to theology - although there's a sliding scale on that as there is on anything else.
Yes, the yobs and thugs have no idea about Christianity and assume that it correlates to being white and British. Heck, an Orthodox monk told me that he'd encountered people out in remote rural areas of Greece who assumed that you couldn't be a Christian at all unless you are Greek.
But the Christians I've come across who support Reform or who express sympathy with Restore are well educated and articulate.
That worries me more than the keyboard warriors and thugs.
I think they are wrong. Deluded even. But they don't all conform to the 'Christian = White British' stereotype.
I agree. I’m sure there are Reform or Restore supporters in our church, but I’m sure they are refugees (now there’s a word!) from other parties. Then again, ours is an independent evangelical church that grew out of another church, so we, like Reform, are “splitters”, so we have form.
He’s up on a rostrum with Union Flags behind him 🤮🤮🤮
And he’s quit as MP, but will stand in the by-election to follow. I wonder if the anti-fash parties can unite against him? I expect the shit will be returned though, because Clacton is prime Reform territory.
The odds of him winning again must be reasonable but not definite. If he wins will the reporting on his finances not just start over again?
It is for the people of Clacton to decide.
Surely Rupert Lowe will run a candidate against him though?
And Count Binface.
Remember that it's the taxpayers that ultimately pick up the bill for the by-elections. I doubt Nigel will be volunteering to contribute anything out of his £5m br.....gift.
Surely Rupert Lowe will run a candidate against him though?
It will be utterly hilarious if the fash split the vote between them and knock each other out.
If he wins the narrative will be 'If this was such a big problem people wouldn't have elected me" and if he loses he'll retreat to the US claiming that he was run off by the 'woke deep state' (and he gets to dominate press coverage during parliamentary recess).
From Lowe's perspective, being the last remaining standard bearer for the far right might prove attractive.
I'd bet on lose, actually. There's way more grift opportunities in being the once-and-future fascist dictator than eventually winning a general election and having the whole thing fall apart in 6 months or less. That said, Farage will be working an angle either way.
I’m hearing the Labour, Tory and Lib Dem parties are not standing candidates. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn0v9l9x0g8t
Count Binface for the unifying candidate. Just imagine the hustings.
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something here, but why are the Tories, Labour, and LibDems not running candidates? If it's so the non-fascist vote can rally around one candidate and block Farage, shouldn't the strongest of those parties stay in the race?
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something here, but why are the Tories, Labour, and LibDems not running candidates? If it's so the non-fascist vote can rally around one candidate and block Farage, shouldn't the strongest of those parties stay in the race?
The Greens have a history of standing candidates where the other parties don't. e.g. For the Speaker's constituency.
Comments
It seems the "purely personal gift" category of interests is prone to be abused, and Farage isn't the only potential abuser of that. It might be simpler to require everything is declared, and the Parliamentary standards officers can decide if something claimed as a personal gift is or isn't and not include personal gifts on the register. When something like this blows up the response is simple, "it was declared and the PSO decided it was a personal gift and didn't include it on the register".
News to me. Have I missed something?
Although 'blame the media' isn't restricted to Reform. I've seen most if not all political parties do that at one time or other.
Phyletism rather than Erastianism ? (You could argue that the CofE is inherently Erastian - as in theory the state holds ultimate authority over the church).
So, yes, more likely to be Phyletism, and other factors besides.
Also there are Welsh and Scottish Reform voters and supporters so it's not a purely English thing.
If(and I'm saying if) the link between sectarianism and politics has weakened in the mainland UK in the same way it has in North America(*), I'd think there is unlikely to be any one particular persuasion identified with Reform, beyond protecting a vaguely conceived idea of Christian culture from a vaguely conceived idea of a foreign non-Christian threat.
(*) As I'm sure I've mentioned before(thus is the reader forewarned), in Canada anti-French sentiment was historically connected to militant protestantism and literal Orangism, but by the time I was becoming aware of the relevant issues in western Canada 1980s, among the local anti-French contingent(and their name was Legion), RCs were probably as well-represented as any other confession. It was the right-wing Catholic Bill Vander Zalm who introduced the precise phrase "French on our cereal boxes" into the political vocabulary, and to the extent people attached any religious connection to that at all, it was with Vander Zalm's conservative CATHOLIC positions, eg. left-wing opponents of Vander Zalm disliked him for trashing bilingualism and trying to impose Catholic morality over the abortion laws.
Back to the UK situation, a few years back I saw an anti-brexiteer attack the Catholic Michael Gove for praising Henry VIII as an English hero, on the grounds of "Doesn't he realize how Henry viciously persecuted Catholics?" But I suspect that critique showed an unawareness of how widely conservative Catholics have been grandfathered into the self-perceived established-faith once represented by Anglicanism, with Muslims and other mostly-racialized creeds taking the place of the foreign-linked Catholic menace.
Because that's kinda what I assume to be the average Christian who supports Reform UK, based largely on my second-hand knowledge of British culture plus extrapolation from elsewhere.
Short answer.
@sionisais that applies to the Reform vote in England too, and Scotland also I suspect.
Reform have succeeded in convincing many voters, and also people who don't generally vote, that everything is bust and they are the only ones who can fix it.
That's how populism works.
Probably, which shows their ignorance of both the history of our faith and the reality of the worldwide church.
They probably want to see some “smiting” and “putting to the sword” as per OT.
Sadly, some will have done.
My wild-guess would be someone else of vaguely Christian identification had posted the photo with a jingoistic caption like "These are true British Christians, exactly the people Starmer wants to lock up!", and your self-styled protestant militant saw it and, not recognizing the symbolism on display, assumed the march was specifically to protest against Muslims.
I was going to say something similar. Jesus wasn’t white. Shock horror. Christianity is a Middle Eastern faith. No it can’t be. 😉
I'm not talking about extreme Protestant fundamentalists or ultra-traditionalist or wannabe Orthodox either. Although they have all shared a conservative approach to theology - although there's a sliding scale on that as there is on anything else.
Yes, the yobs and thugs have no idea about Christianity and assume that it correlates to being white and British. Heck, an Orthodox monk told me that he'd encountered people out in remote rural areas of Greece who assumed that you couldn't be a Christian at all unless you are Greek.
But the Christians I've come across who support Reform or who express sympathy with Restore are well educated and articulate.
That worries me more than the keyboard warriors and thugs.
I think they are wrong. Deluded even. But they don't all conform to the 'Christian = White British' stereotype.
Will he/won't he?
If he goes, it'll be popcorn time for the leadership battle! Who will be the biggest turd in the cesspit?
And he’s quit as MP, but will stand in the by-election to follow. I wonder if the anti-fash parties can unite against him? I expect the shit will be returned though, because Clacton is prime Reform territory.
The odds of him winning again must be reasonable but not definite. If he wins will the reporting on his finances not just start over again?
It is for the people of Clacton to decide.
And Count Binface.
Remember that it's the taxpayers that ultimately pick up the bill for the by-elections. I doubt Nigel will be volunteering to contribute anything out of his £5m br.....gift.
It will be utterly hilarious if the fash split the vote between them and knock each other out.
If he wins the narrative will be 'If this was such a big problem people wouldn't have elected me" and if he loses he'll retreat to the US claiming that he was run off by the 'woke deep state' (and he gets to dominate press coverage during parliamentary recess).
From Lowe's perspective, being the last remaining standard bearer for the far right might prove attractive.
That would be the hope.
I'd bet on lose, actually. There's way more grift opportunities in being the once-and-future fascist dictator than eventually winning a general election and having the whole thing fall apart in 6 months or less. That said, Farage will be working an angle either way.
Probably. If he wins will the “gift” not come round again and the press not start their reporting of it again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn0v9l9x0g8t
Count Binface for the unifying candidate. Just imagine the hustings.
So it could be Farage vs Binface.
The Greens have a history of standing candidates where the other parties don't. e.g. For the Speaker's constituency.