Donald ******* Trump

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  • An insult to decent swine
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited November 21
    Ruth wrote: »
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.

    The two biggest names in that camp are Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom come from the same isolationist, somewhat conspiracy-minded wing of the GOP. A lot of their followers, if not they themselves, are tying Epstein into alleged Mossad plots and pizzagate-style sex cults.

    I will say that, in the case of Greene, AFAICT, she did, in her pre-political life, seem to have had sincere objections to the RCC's cover-up of child sexual-abuse, and in fact, changed religions because of it. I'm guessing she might be transfering her analysis of that issue over to Epstein, albeit with an added overlay of crank conspiracy stuff.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited November 21
    Just found an interesting New Yorker column from last month, called The Persistent Pull Of Planet Epstein.

    Focuses a lot on Candace Owens, though as a close follower of Owens, I'll say she's at least as preoccupied with Israel and the supposed Israeli takeover of TPUSA, as she is on Epstein(though of course, her conspiratorial worldview does see all these issues as linked). I liked that the writer compares Owens to Father Coughlin, a parallel I had been thinking of myself.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.

    The two biggest names in that camp are Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom come from the same isolationist, somewhat conspiracy-minded wing of the GOP. A lot of their followers, if not they themselves, are tying Epstein into alleged Mossad plots and pizzagate-style sex cults.

    They are two of the four House Republicans that forced this whole thing, but it's gone past them. John Thune, the Senate majority leader, refused to put amendments Trump wanted into the Senate bill.
    I will say that, in the case of Greene, AFAICT, she did, in her pre-political life, seem to have had sincere objections to the RCC's cover-up of child sexual-abuse, and in fact, changed religions because of it. I'm guessing she might be transfering her analysis of that issue over to Epstein, albeit with an added overlay of crank conspiracy stuff.

    The really nutso thing -- well, one of the many nutso things -- is that QAnon posited a cabal of global elites running a child sex trafficking ring, and it turns out that something akin to such a thing existed, except QAnon said Trump was leading the fight against it and it was supposed to bring down the Clintons, George Soros et al.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited November 21
    @Ruth
    [Massie and Greene] are two of the four House Republicans that forced this whole thing, but it's gone past them. John Thune, the Senate majority leader, refused to put amendments Trump wanted into the Senate bill.

    Right. I wonder how many Republicans who voted for the bill did so because Trump said he wanted it to pass and they were just following his wishes, OR because they had wanted to do it themselves, but were holding off in deference to Trump, but then his "order" just gave them permission to do what they already wanted to do.

    My guess is the latter, because one thing about Epstein is that the outrage around it seems very grassroots and cross-partisan(as opposed to, say, the outrage about the Stormy Daniels payoffs), and I suspect a lotta Republicans had already clued into that before Trump gave the green-light for disclosure.

    The really nutso thing -- well, one of the many nutso things -- is that QAnon posited a cabal of global elites running a child sex trafficking ring, and it turns out that something akin to such a thing existed, except QAnon said Trump was leading the fight against it and it was supposed to bring down the Clintons, George Soros et al.

    I like to joke that the pizzagate shooter had the right idea about what was going on, he just got the location wrong.

    That said, a friend of mine once observed that conspiracy theories often get their traction because they DO describe an actual reality that people are aware of, but exaggerate how centralized and teleological it is, the involvement of secret societies etc.
  • stetson wrote: »
    @Ruth
    [Massie and Greene] are two of the four House Republicans that forced this whole thing, but it's gone past them. John Thune, the Senate majority leader, refused to put amendments Trump wanted into the Senate bill.

    Right. I wonder how many Republicans who voted for the bill did so because Trump said he wanted it to pass and they were just following his wishes, OR because they had wanted to do it themselves, but were holding off in deference to Trump, but then his "order" just gave them permission to do what they already wanted to do.

    My guess is the latter, because one thing about Epstein is that the outrage around it seems very grassroots and cross-partisan(as opposed to, say, the outrage about the Stormy Daniels payoffs), and I suspect a lotta Republicans had already clued into that before Trump gave the green-light for disclosure.

    I happen to think Mr Piggy and Mike Johnson held off as long as they could. After the petition was signed. Johnson told Piggy he was going to lose the vote. There was nothing stopping it.

    It was a matter of lead or get out of the way. By saying he did not care if the vote went through, Piggy looked like he was still in a leadership position.

    In truth, he is not. His party lost significantly in the last elections. The courts are handing down positions that are going against him. Most recently, a federal judge has blocked Trump's attempt at redistricting Texas. Some Republican states are now balking at him trying to redistrict their states. Other courts are ruling his use of national guard troops in various states is illegal. He totally lost it when Democratic Congressional and Intelligence veterans came out reminding those still under the uniform or in service have the duty to disobey illegal orders. His tantrums end up blowing back on him. He is now a lame duck. He is going to become more and more irrelevant in the next few years. Frankly, I do not see him continuing much beyond 2026.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Most recently, a federal judge has blocked Trump's attempt at redistricting Texas.
    More precisely, a federal three-judge court preliminarily enjoined implementation of the Texas redistricting plan. The court’s opinion was authored by a Trump appointee and joined by an Obama appointee; both are US district court judges. A Reagan appointee from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals dissented.

    Decisions from three-judge courts go straight to the Supreme Court, not to a circuit court of appeals.


  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    edited November 21
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Decisions from three-judge courts go straight to the Supreme Court, not to a circuit court of appeals.

    And they've rolled over for Trump again and again. I saw someone somewhere (yeah, I know!) say the reasoning for the map specifically said something about race, and SCOTUS wants stuff to be "color-blind," so they might rule against the map on that basis. But someone somewhere, whoever, they were, seemed like they were reaching.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited November 21
    Ruth wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Decisions from three-judge courts go straight to the Supreme Court, not to a circuit court of appeals.

    And they've rolled over for Trump again and again. I saw someone somewhere (yeah, I know!) say the reasoning for the map specifically said something about race, and SCOTUS wants stuff to be "color-blind," so they might rule against the map on that basis. But someone somewhere, whoever, they were, seemed like they were reaching.
    See what @Crœsos posted above. Yes, SCOTUS wants things to be colorblind. But what the lower court relied on here, among other things, were communications from USDOJ explicitly demanding that the Texas Legislature change the racial makeup-up of districts. And there are comments from Texas legislators saying they intentionally did just that.

    So they’ve put themselves in a tricky position. If USDOJ and Texas legislators had just kept their mouths shut, if they’d just stuck with the narrative that the redistricting plan was motivated purely by politics, those challenging the maps would have a much harder time making a case. But as it is, SCOTUS is going to have to deal with very clear statements that the Texas Legislature not only did not act in a colorblind fashion, but instead intentionally took race into account to the detriment of minority voters.


  • SCOTUS seems to have developed a backbone regarding the legitimacy of tariffs, at least in their questioning the government lawyer. It has yet to rule on any of the redistricting challenges or the use of the National Guard.
  • The press pictures of trump meeting Zohran Mamdani today show, once again, that he will not stand up to receive a guest in the Oval Office. Even royalty will do that. It's redundant to ask if there is any limit to his bad manners.
  • The meeting seemed to go well. I think XXXXX is trying to catch Mamdani's coat tails when it comes to working on affordability. Both agreed the NY electrical utility needs to lower its use rates. https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/mamdani-and-trump-say-they-agree-on-cutting-the-cost-of-living-including-a-big-utility-company-s-rates/ar-AA1QUqzT
  • stetson wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.

    The two biggest names in that camp are Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom come from the same isolationist, somewhat conspiracy-minded wing of the GOP. A lot of their followers, if not they themselves, are tying Epstein into alleged Mossad plots and pizzagate-style sex cults.
    The New York Times is reporting that Marjorie Taylor Greene has announced that she will resign from Congress in January.


  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The meeting seemed to go well. I think XXXXX is trying to catch Mamdani's coat tails when it comes to working on affordability. Both agreed the NY electrical utility needs to lower its use rates. https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/mamdani-and-trump-say-they-agree-on-cutting-the-cost-of-living-including-a-big-utility-company-s-rates/ar-AA1QUqzT

    Basically, Mamdani needs to get off on a good start with the rather erratic person who controls the flow of federal money into cities, and Trump is having the worst PR run of his second term so far, with a member of his own party now even denouncing him as an abusive husband. So mutual self-interest pretty much a full-on bromance(with accompanying internet lewdness).

    I will read into the record that Justin Trudeau's relationship with Trump 45 started off on a similarly upbeat note, but that this...did not last. Likely different dynamics with the two respective situations, though.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.

    The two biggest names in that camp are Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom come from the same isolationist, somewhat conspiracy-minded wing of the GOP. A lot of their followers, if not they themselves, are tying Epstein into alleged Mossad plots and pizzagate-style sex cults.
    The New York Times is reporting that Marjorie Taylor Greene has announced that she will resign from Congress in January.

    As I alluded to above, it's kinda funny that MTG is denouncing Trump in the most vitriolic terms, the same day that Mamdani is doing a besties-forever routine with him.

    Meanwhile, anti-Greene MAGA mouthpiece Laura Loomer has now accused Trump of "normaliz[ing] commumism[sic]" and "anti-white racism, Jew hatred, open borders and Islamic terror" by buddying up with Mamdani.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    Trump sitting down didn't bother me, as I assume he's a feeble old man. What did strike me was when one of the journalists asked Mamdani about him calling Trump a fascist - and Trump said something like "It's okay, you can say that. I don't mind."
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Eigon wrote: »
    Trump sitting down didn't bother me, as I assume he's a feeble old man. What did strike me was when one of the journalists asked Mamdani about him calling Trump a fascist - and Trump said something like "It's okay, you can say that. I don't mind."

    I think he was joking about the awkwardness of Mamdani's hesitancy in answering the question. The full line was "It's okay. You can just say 'yes'. It's easier than having to explain it."
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited November 22
    Commentators are making Mamdani out to be some sort of political wizard for being a left-winger who can charm Trump into civility, but that isn't an unprecedented feat. In addition to Trudeau(mentioned above), the Democratic Party Of Korea has a pretty impressive track record on that score, and at the recent APEC summit, had their military band play "YMCA" as he exited the plane, and later gifted the self-proclaimed king with an actual crown.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited November 22
    The headline from the NY Times said a lot: "Fascist? Communist? For an Afteroon, Trump and Mamdani Were Just 2 Guys from Queens." I did not read the article though, due to a paywall.

    BTW, as an older person, I too do not get up as quickly as I could when it comes to greeting people, but I cannot recall Biden continuing to sit when in the company of someone else who was standing.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    The headline from the NY Times said a lot: "Fascist? Communist? For an Afteroon, Trump and Mamdani Were Just 2 Guys from Queens." I did not read the article though, due to a paywall.
    Here you go.


  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    I thought that Trump and Mamdani were both overestimating the significance of the 1/10 overlap between their voting blocs in NYC. Electoral leap-frogging is a recognized phenomenon all over the place.

    I guess the shared theme was supposed to be that voters care about "affordability", regardless of partisan affiliation.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Good.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.

    The two biggest names in that camp are Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom come from the same isolationist, somewhat conspiracy-minded wing of the GOP. A lot of their followers, if not they themselves, are tying Epstein into alleged Mossad plots and pizzagate-style sex cults.
    The New York Times is reporting that Marjorie Taylor Greene has announced that she will resign from Congress in January.


    Little known item about Margorie Taylor Green retirement: The timing matters more than people may realize. Under federal law, members of Congress qualify for a pension, funded in part with taxpayer contributions, only after completing five full years of service. Greene began serving on January 3, 2021, and her departure date leaves her with 1,829 days of service—five years and three days, just enough to meet the eligibility threshold. Her pension would start at $8,717 at age 62, and, based on actuarial data, could total more than $265,000 over her lifetime. https://www.ntu.org/foundation/detail/marjorie-taylor-greenes-resignation-timing-secures-her-congressional-pension-by-three-days
  • SCOTUS uses the "colorblind" language when it works for their desired outcome.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Trump has tried to calm down things re his adviser coaching Russians on how to get what they want from Trump. He seems to be hoping it will go away. Some politicians are calling it Treason.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    So this allegedly happened.
    The longer the U.S. surveillance aircraft followed the boat, the more confident intelligence analysts watching from command centers became that the 11 people on board were ferrying drugs. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gave a spoken directive,according to two people with direct knowledge of the operation. “The order was to kill everybody,” one of them said.

    A missile screamed off the Trinidad coast, striking the vessel and igniting a blaze from bow to stern. For minutes, commanders watched the boat burning on a live drone feed. As the smoke cleared, they got a jolt: Two survivors were clinging to the smoldering wreck.

    The Special Operations commander overseeing the Sept. 2 attack — the opening salvo in the Trump administration’s war on suspected drug traffickers in the Western Hemisphere — ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions, two people familiar with the matter said. The two men were blown apart in the water.

    Hegseth’s order, which has not been previously reported, adds another dimension to the campaign against suspected drug traffickers. Some current and former U.S. officials and law-of-war experts have said that the Pentagon’s lethal campaign — which has killed more than 80 people to date — is unlawful and may expose those most directly involved to future prosecution.

    The alleged traffickers pose no imminent threat of attack against the United States and are not, as the Trump administration has tried to argue, in an “armed conflict” with the U.S., these officials and experts say. Because there is no legitimate war between the two sides, killing any ofthe men in the boats “amounts to murder,” said Todd Huntley, a former military lawyer who advised Special Operations forces for seven years at the height of the U.S. counterterrorism campaign.

    Even if the U.S. were at war with the traffickers, an order to kill all the boat’s occupants if they were no longer able to fight “would in essence be an order to show no quarter, which would be a war crime,” said Huntley, now director of the national security law program at Georgetown Law.

    Compare and contrast:
    President Trump announced on Friday afternoon that he would grant “a Full and Complete Pardon” to a former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernández, who, as the center of a sweeping drug case, was found guilty by an American jury last year of conspiring to import cocaine into the United States.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    The Trump administration are more brazen and less competent, but extrajudicial killing on flimsy or ginned up evidence has been part of US policy, particularly in the Americas, for decades. There's a reason the US is not part of the ICC, and there is very little chance of the perpetrators being brought to justice.
  • There is no Law. There is only Trump.
  • And Hegseth wants to court martial Kelly for reminding servicemen to have a duty to disobey illegal orders. If only we were members of the World Court. I think I know who would be up on charges there. Fact is, I seem to recall a Spanish prosecutor once bringing charges against an American official for crimes against humanity. I will have to look that up.
  • About the shootings of the guardsmen in Washington DC.

    First of all, thoughts and prayers for the one still struggling to live. Prayers for Army Spc. Sarah Beckstrom's family.

    But I have to say, who was it that put the targets on their backs? If they were not in DC would the alleged assassin even had come to DC.

    And now that the incident has happened it gives Frump even more reason to crack down on immigration from 19 Countries of concern.

    Over the last week, Frump has shown how racist, misogynous, and just a dead head when it comes to international affairs.

    And what's with the Russian written peace proposal? Now that Trump has backed away from it to more of an EU position, we know Putin is not going to accept it.

    He is now saying once the tariffs are fully implemented he will be able to do away with income taxes. Ya right, little history lesson, bub. The one reason why we went to a progressive income tax is because the tariff system was not bringing in enough income then. Ya think that is going to change?

    Old AA definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Fact is, I seem to recall a Spanish prosecutor once bringing charges against an American official for crimes against humanity. I will have to look that up.

    Spain considers itself to have universal jurisdiction when it comes to war crimes, crimes against humanity, and general human rights abuses. A Spanish prosecutor rather famously indicted Augusto Pinochet and had him held for over a year when he was traveling in Europe.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Fact is, I seem to recall a Spanish prosecutor once bringing charges against an American official for crimes against humanity. I will have to look that up.

    Spain considers itself to have universal jurisdiction when it comes to war crimes, crimes against humanity, and general human rights abuses. A Spanish prosecutor rather famously indicted Augusto Pinochet and had him held for over a year when he was traveling in Europe.

    Just listened to a ThruLines report on the Pinochet regime.

    I checked. I could not find anything specific, other than Pinochet. But there can always be a first.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    About the Epstein files: what I find currently interesting is that some of the Congressional Republicans are saying they want to see files released pronto.

    The two biggest names in that camp are Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom come from the same isolationist, somewhat conspiracy-minded wing of the GOP. A lot of their followers, if not they themselves, are tying Epstein into alleged Mossad plots and pizzagate-style sex cults.
    The New York Times is reporting that Marjorie Taylor Greene has announced that she will resign from Congress in January.


    Little known item about Margorie Taylor Green retirement: The timing matters more than people may realize. Under federal law, members of Congress qualify for a pension, funded in part with taxpayer contributions, only after completing five full years of service. Greene began serving on January 3, 2021, and her departure date leaves her with 1,829 days of service—five years and three days, just enough to meet the eligibility threshold. Her pension would start at $8,717 at age 62, and, based on actuarial data, could total more than $265,000 over her lifetime. https://www.ntu.org/foundation/detail/marjorie-taylor-greenes-resignation-timing-secures-her-congressional-pension-by-three-days

    AFAIK, that's true, but I don't think there's really anything to make an issue of. If the rules allow a member to time their departure in that manner, the member is free to do so. People who don't like it can propose reforms to the rules.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 1
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Fact is, I seem to recall a Spanish prosecutor once bringing charges against an American official for crimes against humanity. I will have to look that up.

    Spain considers itself to have universal jurisdiction when it comes to war crimes, crimes against humanity, and general human rights abuses. A Spanish prosecutor rather famously indicted Augusto Pinochet and had him held for over a year when he was traveling in Europe.

    Just listened to a ThruLines report on the Pinochet regime.

    I checked. I could not find anything specific, other than Pinochet. But there can always be a first.

    Further research on my part did find that Spanish prosecutors opened at least an investigation against the lawyers in the Bush II administration that wrote up the legal justifications for the use of torture at Guantanamo, but the Spanish courts dismissed the issue over questions of jurisdiction. https://ccrjustice.org/home/what-we-do/our-cases/accountability-us-torture-spain
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Re Hegseth it looks like he may get away with it. It may all fall on those at the sharp end. I hope not
  • GwaiGwai Epiphanies Host
    I don't feel particularly sorry for anyone who did it in that they all knew it was an unlawful order. But a bloody shame if Hegseth gets away with it. And I agree that he may well.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 3
    Now T is going after Somalis living in the Minneapolis area. ICE is planning a surge there to deal with "the problem.''

    Anything to detract from the real issues of the day.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate

    And then he invites the leaders of the Congo and Rwanda to sign a peace treaty for a war that has not ended.

    Did you hear FIFA World Cup people are going to give a peace award to DJT? This in spite of the fact he is shooting up boats in the Caribbean and about to invade Venezuela.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    FIFA being such an upright organization itself.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    FIFA being such an upright organization itself.

    Indeed.
  • Yes, if they really present Trump with some gaudy bauble, it's in keeping with recent FIFA history. Better not mention names.
  • After the cabinet meeting the other day when Mr Trump appeared to not be concentrating the whole time should we now call him Sleepy Donald?
  • StephenStephen Shipmate
    I call him Donald Duck......
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Yes, if they really present Trump with some gaudy bauble, it's in keeping with recent FIFA history. Better not mention names.

    And in a truly shocking development, FIFA's first ever peace prize goes to . . . Donald Trump! Who could have predicted?

    Anyway, giving the Mad King a shiny golden bauble to flatter his narcissism seems like the smart move, especially if you're like FIFA and don't have to worry about your reputation.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    So, what has trump done to deserve this accolade?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited December 5
    Boogie wrote: »
    So, what has trump done to deserve this accolade?

    Hinted very strongly to FIFA about his ability to mess up the 2026 World Cup.
  • What a lot of gaudy baubles he will have, to take with him into the darkness of his tomb.
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