›

Ship of Fools: At The Cross, Oceanside, California, USA

The Mystery WorshipperThe Mystery Worshipper Shipmate
edited September 2024 in The Mystery Worshipper

imageShip of Fools: At The Cross, Oceanside, California, USA

Rock music that went on indefinitely leaves our reporter feeling like he hadn’t been to church at all

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here


Comments

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    They are affiliated with TPUSA Faith, which ‘exists to serve the American church by resourcing Christians across the nation to boldly stand for truth, liberty, and The Kingdom,’ but which strikes this Mystery Worshipper more as an attempt to justify as Christian the more extreme agendas of far-right-wingers – and, apparently, the abominable practice of splitting infinitives.
    Oh my, Miss Amanda. You may have gotten out none too soon.

    TPUSA is Turning Point USA, which includes Turning Point Faith, Turning Point Action and Turning Point Endowment. Among their many activities, they maintain a “professor watchlist,” “dedicated to documenting and exposing college professors who discriminate against conservative students, promote anti-American values, and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom.” They maintain a similar “school board watchlist.”

    The have significant far-right ties, and sent several buses to the January 6, 2021, “Stop the Steal Rally” in Washington, DC. It was at a Turning Point Action conference in July that Donald Trump said:
    Christians, get out and vote just this time. You won't have to do it anymore, four more years. You know what? It'll be fixed. It'll be fine. You won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians. I love you.

    So yeah, I’d stay far away.

  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    [Hostly Hint]

    Let's confine ourselves to discussion about the service here and take politics elsewhere, please.

    Nenya - Mystery Worshipper Host

    [/Hostly Hint}
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    One odd thing in the description of the church struck me - the stage area being slightly lower than the seating area...

    Isn't it usually the other way around, so that the musicians, worship leaders etc. can be seen and heard more easily?

    Weird.

    BTW, I don't for one moment blame Miss Amanda for leaving when she did, but I assume that the singing was eventually succeeded by some sort of Bible message, prayers, and (given the preparations made) a form of Communion.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Nenya wrote: »
    [Hostly Hint]

    Let's confine ourselves to discussion about the service here and take politics elsewhere, please.

    Nenya - Mystery Worshipper Host

    [/Hostly Hint}

    I will, but would you permit me to say I chose this church precisely for that affiliation, to bring it to Shipmates' attention.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    I assume that the singing was eventually succeeded by some sort of Bible message, prayers, and (given the preparations made) a form of Communion.

    I assume so too, but I couldn't take any more.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    :wink:

    Thanks, anyway...
  • Box PewBox Pew Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    I am unclear exactly what in the service triggered your dismay, Miss Amanda.

    Was it the style of music, the message of the lyrics, the lack of a let-up in the musical offering? Or was it your pre-disposition to dislike their kind of Christian witness (you say that led you there in the first place, so that we Shipmates might know more)?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    It was the lack of a let-up in the musical offering. As I said in the report, had there been 10 or 15 minutes of "worship" followed by scriptural readings, prayer, intercessions, sermon, communion, etc. I would have stayed. But after 35 minutes of nonstop music, with no letup in sight, I had had enough.

    Although the style of music was not what I prefer, the musicians played well. But I just got tired of listening to the same old thing.

    As for "their kind of Christian witness," I take no issue with their "serving the American church by resourcing Christians across the nation to boldly stand for truth, liberty, and The Kingdom," but if their idea of "truth" is, for example, that God did not create some of us to be attracted to members of our own sex, but rather that it is the work of the devil and must be condemned as such; or if their idea of liberty is that we should be free to elect leaders of government who are incorrigible rapists, liars and thieves, then yes, I am "predisposed to dislike" such sentiments.

    It is hardly a secret that there exist bodies who call themselves churches, even Christian, but who espouse beliefs that Jesus would have spit out of his mouth. Mind you, I am not saying that At The Cross is such a body, but I would have liked to hear what they had to say, and to see what they had to do, so as to form an opinion.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    I wouldn't dream of suggesting that Miss Amanda revisit this Place (she's suffered enough, I think), but, if the 35+ minutes of *worship* are a common practice, perhaps another Reporter could sneak in at the strategic (hopefully) moment, to find out what the rest of the service is like...

    Or perhaps not.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    I don't think we have anyone in southern California, do we? I visit Oceanside often but I certainly wouldn't dream of going back. Perhaps if someone is vacationing in San Diego, they wouldn't mind hopping the train up to Oceanside and dropping in some Sunday.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    I'd do it myself, but it's a long way from Arkland (UK)...
    :disappointed:
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    And to Tipperary (but your heart will be there). :wink:
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    :lol:

    My Irish cousins live in County Meath, but hey...
  • PortolaPortola Shipmate
    This report illustrates questions, which I think do not get the attention they deserve; namely: what constitutes worship? At what point does worship begin? According to this most interesting report, there was no moment within the first 35 minutes when "worship" became discernible. According to my experience, some people are not even aware that "worship" is supposed to occur at a church service. As a working definition, I suggest that worship begins when a leader or a congregation acknowledges the presence of God and in some form "bows down" to the Lord in his presence. This Divine Presence can be acknowledged by body language, by a prayer or by words of invocation. In any case, worship occurs when the message is conveyed "It's all about you, our Creator and our Redeemer". Sometimes, the focus is not on worship, but on performance, which conveys the message, "It's all about us."
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Portola wrote: »
    This report illustrates questions, which I think do not get the attention they deserve; namely: what constitutes worship? At what point does worship begin? According to this most interesting report, there was no moment within the first 35 minutes when "worship" became discernible. According to my experience, some people are not even aware that "worship" is supposed to occur at a church service. As a working definition, I suggest that worship begins when a leader or a congregation acknowledges the presence of God and in some form "bows down" to the Lord in his presence. This Divine Presence can be acknowledged by body language, by a prayer or by words of invocation. In any case, worship occurs when the message is conveyed "It's all about you, our Creator and our Redeemer". Sometimes, the focus is not on worship, but on performance, which conveys the message, "It's all about us."

    These are indeed very interesting questions. Please feel free to start a thread in Ecclesiantics for further discussion.

    Nenya - Mystery Worshipper and Ecclesiantics Host
  • WanderingnotlostWanderingnotlost Shipmate Posts: 1
    Besides, they would be scandalized to know what I think of when I hear the phrase ‘At the cross’ – namely, the customary English translation of the opening lines of the Stabat mater: ‘At the cross her station keeping, stood the mournful mother weeping.’
    Might I ask that you expand upon this? What is it that scandalizes you, the translation? I flunked Latin, so I have no real understanding of the issue.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    The translation is fine. But the Stabat Mater is strictly a Marian hymn. I doubt that they are into Mariology.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Welcome aboard @Wanderingnotlost !

    The title of the Report reminded me of this hymn by Isaac Watts, and its later chorus by R E Hudson:

    https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/999

    This seems far more in line with this church's theology, and may be the reason for the dedication.

    Hudson's chorus was popular in the Church Of My Youth, but sung (IIRC) without the verses, IYSWIM.
  • molopatamolopata Shipmate Posts: 2
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    I wouldn't dream of suggesting that Miss Amanda revisit this Place (she's suffered enough, I think), but, if the 35+ minutes of *worship* are a common practice, perhaps another Reporter could sneak in at the strategic (hopefully) moment, to find out what the rest of the service is like...

    Reading the report, what I‘m wondering is whether this is exactly what a sizeable number of church members actually do and accordingly, whether the service had even really started for real. Difficult to say. African and Latin American services of the indigenous variety also take a long time to make their point… or make their point exactly in the extended duration.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    edited September 2024
    molopata wrote: »
    what I‘m wondering is . . . whether the service had even really started for real.

    They had another one coming in at 10:00, so if they hadn't yet "started for real" I would have wished them to get on with it.

    Fixed coding - Nenya, Mystery Worshipper Host
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Well, yes, but I see what @molopata is hinting at. After 35 minutes of *worship songs*, they still had the best part of an hour before the 10am gig, so maybe that was at least partially filled by a meaty (?) 35-minute sermon. However, if the service is advertised as starting at 8 o'clock, it should indeed start at that hour.

    It's common at Our Place for a fair proportion of the Faithful to straggle into Mass at any point between the opening hymn and the offertory hymn (some thereby even missing the Gospel), though it's often for good reasons (late leaving work, problems at home, car trouble...).
Sign In or Register to comment.