Stotting is what antelope do. They stott by jumping in the air. Pronghorn, native the the Canadian prairies will stott.
What is "butty". Is it butter?
Do you eat bannock? Fried baking powder dough flatbread. I make it periodically at home, it's a staple on canoe trips cooked over a fire. You can put it around a fat stick and roast it too.
Bannock is definitely a North American thing. Never came across it in the UK.
The best bannock I have had was at a little First Nations cafe in West Kelowna. It was so good, Mrs Claypool and I went many miles out of our way to make a return visit.
My understanding was that a bannock is a form of unleavened oat bread. The OED says barley, pease, or maybe wheat in Scotland, but possibly oats in northern England (thicker and softer than oatcake in both instances). It then adds that local usage varies.
There is Selkirk Bannock which is rich with dried fruit, and is baked in an oven.
But ordinary bannock was what my grandmother was brought up on. No oven in the working poor family’s house (her father was a coachman, her mother gatekeeper, for a small estate in Fife) and so the “bread” was bannock which is a kind of scone, but not made with expensive ingredients like egg and sugar, and is baked on a girdle (English say griddle) over the fire.
Because she was proud of “bettering” herself Granny would never make bannocks for her family. But her girdle scones were the best in the world.
My bannock is 1 tsp baking powder per 1 cup flour. 1 tsp of a fat (oil or butter) per cup of flour. That's it. Water to make a dough you can handle. squish out into rounds (say 3, 4 , 5, or 6 inches, fry at 3/10.
Everything else optional: Oat flakes, seeds or nuts, raisins, spices like cinnamon, sugar, salt., chili or curry powder. Or another direction is cheese. Basically what you've got on hand.
Childhood memories of frying up a can of Tulip (1 lb of bacon) and then deep frying bannock in the grease. Sets up a day of high intensity activity in the snow.
We have the understanding that the fur traders modified it from the Scots and French. iIdigenous peoples, plus French and Scots* - combined cultures and languages to become the Métis nation in Canada (said may-tee; languages Bungi and Michif), which are legally recognized (to a degree, e.g., hunting and fishing rights) . Bannock is traditional fare.
*Scots re fur trading, Canada and Métis. Had the understanding that it was mostly from Orkney as the thought was that the people from there were already weather tolerant.
I gather that scones are what are called biscuits in America.
Similar, but not quite the same. Scones, at least in my experience, are a bit richer. Biscuits are generally neither particularly sweet or savory, though sometimes you’ll have cheese biscuits. Fruit is rarely baked into the biscuit, though I have encountered blueberries or raisins in biscuits. But usually a biscuit is a vehicle for other sweet or savory things, or at least for butter.
Ain't no bannocks in these parts (Pacific Northwest). Proper biscuits are made with very soft flour, lard, buttermilk, and leavening, and float off the plate. Nothing I've ever had that was called a scone floats. Indeed if I dropped one on the floor I would jump backwards for fear of injuring a toe.
Do you eat bannock? Fried baking powder dough flatbread. I make it periodically at home, it's a staple on canoe trips cooked over a fire. You can put it around a fat stick and roast it too.
Not done if for ages, not since I was a Girl Guide myself, but that mix I make into a ribbon, twist round a stick and cook over the fire on the stick. And that I call a damper. It's possibly something that could be made to achieve the Backwoods Cooking interest badge nowadays
Do not enter discussion about the pronounciation of scones. It varies with region, but everyone claims fiercely that their way is the only correct one.
The scone we're talking about here has a short "o"; Scone, the town, is pronounced Scown.
If GH can stand for P as in HICCOUGH;
If OUGH can stand for O as in DOUGH;
If PHTH can stand for T and in PHTISIS;
If EIGH can stand for A as in NEIGHBOR;
If TTE can stand for T as in GAZETTE;
If EAU can stand for O as in PLATEAU,
Packed in pure beautiful white lard. A thing of wonder. Before we knew anything much about nutrition. It was thought you could eat anything if you exercised it off.
If GH can stand for P as in HICCOUGH but it doesn't in potato.
If OUGH can stand for O as in DOUGH but it doesn't in potato.
If PHTH can stand for T and in PHTISIS but it doesn't in potato.
If EIGH can stand for A as in NEIGHBOR but it doesn't in potato.
If TTE can stand for T as in GAZETTE but it doesn't in potato.
If EAU can stand for O as in PLATEAU but it doesn't in potato.
Stotting is what antelope do. They stott by jumping in the air. Pronghorn, native the the Canadian prairies will stott.
C'est bizarre, ça. The action you describe is, in South Africa, called "pronking". It's what springboks do - leaping up into the air. Used in both Afrikaans and English.
We have the understanding that the fur traders modified it from the Scots and French. iIdigenous peoples, plus French and Scots* - combined cultures and languages to become the Métis nation in Canada (said may-tee; languages Bungi and Michif), which are legally recognized (to a degree, e.g., hunting and fishing rights) . Bannock is traditional fare.
*Scots re fur trading, Canada and Métis. Had the understanding that it was mostly from Orkney as the thought was that the people from there were already weather tolerant.
I don't know whether it was that Orcadians were "weather tolerant" (though a safe guess), but, for a lot of Hudson's Bay Company ships, their last port of call before heading west across the Atlantic was Kirkwall. The local museum has a surprising collection of Canadian and HBC artefacts.
I take it this isn't what's sold in the US as "Canadian bacon"? Thin, round slices in a can, no lard. Really good. Sort of a rare treat, when I was going up. Now, often an option as a pizza topping.
I take it this isn't what's sold in the US as "Canadian bacon"? Thin, round slices in a can, no lard. Really good. Sort of a rare treat, when I was going up. Now, often an option as a pizza topping.
When I were a lad, a company called DAK made canned bacon, and it was streaky bacon, not back bacon. It was an excellent staple shipboard, because you could pull it out when you were ready to make a seafood chowder and have bacon without refrigerating it, regardless of what day on your voyage you managed to get enough seafood to make your chowder. No need to ask me how I know this.
This is relevant, but takes a minute to set up. Patience, please.
For the last couple of years, we've been getting the FNX (First Nations Experience) network on broadcast TV. Here in the SF Bay Area, it's part of a set of public broadcasting stations that carry all sorts of indigenous programming. Much of it is re Canadian First Nations, but there are also Native American shows; and also indigenous programming from around the world.
Two relevant things about bannock and fry bread:
--The "Wapos Bay" stop-motion series (FNX) about a Cree village in Canada. Bannock comes up, from time to time. I dearly love this series--I love stop-action animation; the series is really well done; bits of Cree language and culture are included; and it's funny. Oh, and most eps have clever shout-outs to TV and film.
NOTE: This is by Cree people, and I think might have originally been for them in a Cree-language version. So they poke fun at *themselves*--and also some other people. It's on every night here. I find it comforting and calming, so I watch it most nights.
NOTE-2: I tried to find a place where you could watch full episodes free online. Mixed results, and couldn't always get a page to work. At the FNX link, the main page was fine, but I couldn't get a viewer to display when I clicked on links. However, you can get *some* things at Wapos Bay Productions on YouTube.
Do not enter discussion about the pronounciation of scones. It varies with region, but everyone claims fiercely that their way is the only correct one.
The scone we're talking about here has a short "o"; Scone, the town, is pronounced Scown.
EDIT: We do a similar thing with "chips". Only in that case we use it to mean 2 completely different things, one in common with Brits and the other in common with Americans.
Americans will use "chips" to mean pommes frites when in context of a dish containing fried fish: fish and chips. Some restaurants have alternative versions which will keep the word, such as clam and chips or shrimp and chips. Once you leave that context, and especially if preceded with the word "potato", "chips" refers to what the Brits call "crisps".
We use chips for all of that, all the time. British crisps are chips. Pommes frites are chips. They become (French) fries at McDonald's and that's about it.
Brits have chips and crisps. Americans have pommes frites and chips. But Australians decided to have chips and chips.
Do not enter discussion about the pronounciation of scones. It varies with region, but everyone claims fiercely that their way is the only correct one.
The scone we're talking about here has a short "o"; Scone, the town, is pronounced Scown.
Nope, scone is pronounced s-con with a short o around here, although I know people who say sc-own.
Welsh cakes are griddle cakes and I keep forgetting them as I like them and they're another thing that works OK GF.
There are a range of amazing yeasted buns (not so good GF) - bath, hot cross, Colston, Chelsea, saffron, Sally Lunn and cinnamon, to name a few of the traditional local recipes. There's a Cambridge tradition of Chelsea buns from Fitzwilliams, definitely worth trying.
I'm amused to note the Bristol local traditional Colston bun listed as it's named after Edward Colston, he of the toppled statue. Apparently the society celebrating the events with the distribution of the buns voluntarily closed last year, so I wonder how long they will continue to be made.
Has anyone mentioned lardy cake yet? One of my school friend's mothers made it for us when I went round after school one day. Fresh out of the oven it's amazing, a different experience from shop bought.
If GH can stand for P as in HICCOUGH;
If OUGH can stand for O as in DOUGH;
If PHTH can stand for T and in PHTISIS;
If EIGH can stand for A as in NEIGHBOR;
If TTE can stand for T as in GAZETTE;
If EAU can stand for O as in PLATEAU,
Then the correct way to spell POTATO is
GHOUGHPHTHEIGHTTEEAU.
These things (like spelling fish 'ghoti') always ignore that English spellling only allows these values for these graphs in certain positions in a word.
Brits have chips and crisps. Americans have pommes frites and chips. But Australians decided to have chips and chips.
Probably more accurate to say Americans have fries/French fries and chips. I’d hazard a guess that most Americans wouldn’t have a clue what’s meant by pommes frites. They wouldn’t in these parts, at least. I can’t recall hearing that term until the last decade or two, and I only encounter it in a fancier restaurant (or a restaurant trying to look fancy) or in discussions like this, where it’s useful to convey exactly what is meant.
I came across another difference which I'd would never have thought of. How do you pronounce 'lapis lazuli'? It's the semi-precious stone which was used to make ultramarine before French chemists found out a cheap way of manufacturing it in the early nineteenth century?
It's usually lapis laz-you-lie in England with the stress on the 'laz'. On a US documentary recently I heard someone say 'la-zoo-lee' with the emphasis on the 'zoo'. I was so surprised that I thought he didn't know how the word was said and was just wrong. Then someone else in the documentary pronounced it the same way. A check on the internet revealed that in the US 'la-zoo-lee' is how it is pronounced.
My geologist father called it lazurite. The crystalline structure of it is dodecahedral (12 sided). I know this well as it was used by me as an insult. It sounded a bit like dodo and rather sophisticated at 5 syllables when I was 8.
My geologist father called it lazurite. The crystalline structure of it is dodecahedral (12 sided). I know this well as it was used by me as an insult. It sounded a bit like dodo and rather sophisticated at 5 syllables when I was 8.
8-year-old you went around "insulting" people by calling them "dodecahedral"? That's quite amusing.
I came across another difference which I'd would never have thought of. How do you pronounce 'lapis lazuli'? It's the semi-precious stone which was used to make ultramarine before French chemists found out a cheap way of manufacturing it in the early nineteenth century?
It's usually lapis laz-you-lie in England with the stress on the 'laz'. On a US documentary recently I heard someone say 'la-zoo-lee' with the emphasis on the 'zoo'. I was so surprised that I thought he didn't know how the word was said and was just wrong. Then someone else in the documentary pronounced it the same way. A check on the internet revealed that in the US 'la-zoo-lee' is how it is pronounced.
I’ve always heard “LA-zoo-lee,” with the emphasis on the first syllable.
There are quite a lot of differences in stress in different words. The obvious one is karate, stressed on 2nd syllable by many English, first syllable by some US. Many exceptions, no doubt.
There are quite a lot of differences in stress in different words. The obvious one is karate, stressed on 2nd syllable by many English, first syllable by some US. Many exceptions, no doubt.
Some US English speakers pronounce it "Carroty", as in "like a carrot"?
There are quite a lot of differences in stress in different words. The obvious one is karate, stressed on 2nd syllable by many English, first syllable by some US. Many exceptions, no doubt.
I’ve hardly ever heard anything but access on the second syllable in the US, except from the very occasional TV or movie character trying to sound Japanese, who might put the access on the last syllable. That’s usually presented as a joke.
EDIT: We do a similar thing with "chips". Only in that case we use it to mean 2 completely different things, one in common with Brits and the other in common with Americans.
Americans will use "chips" to mean pommes frites when in context of a dish containing fried fish: fish and chips. Some restaurants have alternative versions which will keep the word, such as clam and chips or shrimp and chips. Once you leave that context, and especially if preceded with the word "potato", "chips" refers to what the Brits call "crisps".
We use chips for all of that, all the time. British crisps are chips. Pommes frites are chips. They become (French) fries at McDonald's and that's about it.
Brits have chips and crisps. Americans have pommes frites and chips. But Australians decided to have chips and chips.
Actually only effete snobs say "pommes frites". Primarily we have chips and fries.
"Steak frites" is a pretty common menu item in Canada. The "frites" are always the slim French variety. I've noticed in the UK some places will give you the choice of frites or chips (the larger, wedge-type) with your steak. One pub gave me the choice of frites or "proper chips". I inferred their feelings on Brexit.
Comments
Bannock is definitely a North American thing. Never came across it in the UK.
The best bannock I have had was at a little First Nations cafe in West Kelowna. It was so good, Mrs Claypool and I went many miles out of our way to make a return visit.
I bow to the authority of any Scots on board, though.
MMM
But ordinary bannock was what my grandmother was brought up on. No oven in the working poor family’s house (her father was a coachman, her mother gatekeeper, for a small estate in Fife) and so the “bread” was bannock which is a kind of scone, but not made with expensive ingredients like egg and sugar, and is baked on a girdle (English say griddle) over the fire.
Because she was proud of “bettering” herself Granny would never make bannocks for her family. But her girdle scones were the best in the world.
Everything else optional: Oat flakes, seeds or nuts, raisins, spices like cinnamon, sugar, salt., chili or curry powder. Or another direction is cheese. Basically what you've got on hand.
Childhood memories of frying up a can of Tulip (1 lb of bacon) and then deep frying bannock in the grease. Sets up a day of high intensity activity in the snow.
We have the understanding that the fur traders modified it from the Scots and French. iIdigenous peoples, plus French and Scots* - combined cultures and languages to become the Métis nation in Canada (said may-tee; languages Bungi and Michif), which are legally recognized (to a degree, e.g., hunting and fishing rights) . Bannock is traditional fare.
*Scots re fur trading, Canada and Métis. Had the understanding that it was mostly from Orkney as the thought was that the people from there were already weather tolerant.
Or gravy.
Not done if for ages, not since I was a Girl Guide myself, but that mix I make into a ribbon, twist round a stick and cook over the fire on the stick. And that I call a damper. It's possibly something that could be made to achieve the Backwoods Cooking interest badge nowadays
I imagine they would be very difficult to support, and uncomfortable.
The bread would be barm, but I've not heard it in use here for 50 years or more. Even then, it was older women in country towns.
The scone we're talking about here has a short "o"; Scone, the town, is pronounced Scown.
If GH can stand for P as in HICCOUGH;
If OUGH can stand for O as in DOUGH;
If PHTH can stand for T and in PHTISIS;
If EIGH can stand for A as in NEIGHBOR;
If TTE can stand for T as in GAZETTE;
If EAU can stand for O as in PLATEAU,
Then the correct way to spell POTATO is
GHOUGHPHTHEIGHTTEEAU.
Ah but if "here" is the Ship, it's not so many years ago that there was a whole thread about barmcakes and where they were to be found.
Packed in pure beautiful white lard. A thing of wonder. Before we knew anything much about nutrition. It was thought you could eat anything if you exercised it off.
Context is everything.
C'est bizarre, ça. The action you describe is, in South Africa, called "pronking". It's what springboks do - leaping up into the air. Used in both Afrikaans and English.
I don't know whether it was that Orcadians were "weather tolerant" (though a safe guess), but, for a lot of Hudson's Bay Company ships, their last port of call before heading west across the Atlantic was Kirkwall. The local museum has a surprising collection of Canadian and HBC artefacts.
I take it this isn't what's sold in the US as "Canadian bacon"? Thin, round slices in a can, no lard. Really good. Sort of a rare treat, when I was going up. Now, often an option as a pizza topping.
When I were a lad, a company called DAK made canned bacon, and it was streaky bacon, not back bacon. It was an excellent staple shipboard, because you could pull it out when you were ready to make a seafood chowder and have bacon without refrigerating it, regardless of what day on your voyage you managed to get enough seafood to make your chowder. No need to ask me how I know this.
You have a better memory than I, even with your prompt.
Then there's barmy.
This is relevant, but takes a minute to set up. Patience, please.
For the last couple of years, we've been getting the FNX (First Nations Experience) network on broadcast TV. Here in the SF Bay Area, it's part of a set of public broadcasting stations that carry all sorts of indigenous programming. Much of it is re Canadian First Nations, but there are also Native American shows; and also indigenous programming from around the world.
Two relevant things about bannock and fry bread:
--The "Wapos Bay" stop-motion series (FNX) about a Cree village in Canada. Bannock comes up, from time to time. I dearly love this series--I love stop-action animation; the series is really well done; bits of Cree language and culture are included; and it's funny. Oh, and most eps have clever shout-outs to TV and film.
NOTE: This is by Cree people, and I think might have originally been for them in a Cree-language version. So they poke fun at *themselves*--and also some other people. It's on every night here. I find it comforting and calming, so I watch it most nights.
NOTE-2: I tried to find a place where you could watch full episodes free online. Mixed results, and couldn't always get a page to work. At the FNX link, the main page was fine, but I couldn't get a viewer to display when I clicked on links. However, you can get *some* things at Wapos Bay Productions on YouTube.
--There's also a funny, pseudo-documentary called "More Than Fry Bread" (IMDB), about a fry bread competition.
I think I've gone on long enough!
‘’Scown” as in “drown” or as in “thrown”?
We use chips for all of that, all the time. British crisps are chips. Pommes frites are chips. They become (French) fries at McDonald's and that's about it.
Brits have chips and crisps. Americans have pommes frites and chips. But Australians decided to have chips and chips.
Thrown
Welsh cakes are griddle cakes and I keep forgetting them as I like them and they're another thing that works OK GF.
There are a range of amazing yeasted buns (not so good GF) - bath, hot cross, Colston, Chelsea, saffron, Sally Lunn and cinnamon, to name a few of the traditional local recipes. There's a Cambridge tradition of Chelsea buns from Fitzwilliams, definitely worth trying.
I'm amused to note the Bristol local traditional Colston bun listed as it's named after Edward Colston, he of the toppled statue. Apparently the society celebrating the events with the distribution of the buns voluntarily closed last year, so I wonder how long they will continue to be made.
Has anyone mentioned lardy cake yet? One of my school friend's mothers made it for us when I went round after school one day. Fresh out of the oven it's amazing, a different experience from shop bought.
I suggest you re-read what was said about the difference between a scone and Scone.
These things (like spelling fish 'ghoti') always ignore that English spellling only allows these values for these graphs in certain positions in a word.
It's usually lapis laz-you-lie in England with the stress on the 'laz'. On a US documentary recently I heard someone say 'la-zoo-lee' with the emphasis on the 'zoo'. I was so surprised that I thought he didn't know how the word was said and was just wrong. Then someone else in the documentary pronounced it the same way. A check on the internet revealed that in the US 'la-zoo-lee' is how it is pronounced.
Let's not resurrect the Scone Wars. We need to agree that the word is pronounced differently.
(But it's "scon" - "scown" is just pretentious)
8-year-old you went around "insulting" people by calling them "dodecahedral"? That's quite amusing.
Some US English speakers pronounce it "Carroty", as in "like a carrot"?
I’ve never heard access on the first syllable.
Actually only effete snobs say "pommes frites". Primarily we have chips and fries.
Not for the town in the Upper Hunter, it isn't.